Middle-line stem direction

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Schonbergian
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Middle-line stem direction

Post by Schonbergian »

I have always been taught, and followed, the doctrine that the stem direction of a note on the middle line varies depending on the melody direction. However, it seems that most modern literature (such as Ross) as well as most contemporary music always uses a stem down, which seems unwantedly restrictive. Is there another reason behind this "rule" or is it just a notation program default?
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David Ward
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Re: Middle-line stem direction

Post by David Ward »

On p13-14 of her book Gould has something to say about this: she says that it depends on the context, certainly not always stem down.
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Christof Schardt
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Re: Middle-line stem direction

Post by Christof Schardt »

Schonbergian wrote: 03 Feb 2017, 02:32 ...that the stem direction of a note on the middle line varies depending on the melody direction. ...
You mean in a certain, algorithmic way? Or trying to avoid too much flipping of stems?

What I perceived so far is: generally draw those stems downwards. In vocal scores draw them generally upwards.
I assume the reasoning for the latter rule is to save space below the staff for the lyrics.

Of course in beamed group it follows different rules.
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Schonbergian
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Re: Middle-line stem direction

Post by Schonbergian »

Christof Schardt wrote: 03 Feb 2017, 08:02
Schonbergian wrote: 03 Feb 2017, 02:32 ...that the stem direction of a note on the middle line varies depending on the melody direction. ...
You mean in a certain, algorithmic way? Or trying to avoid too much flipping of stems?

What I perceived so far is: generally draw those stems downwards. In vocal scores draw them generally upwards.
I assume the reasoning for the latter rule is to save space below the staff for the lyrics.

Of course in beamed group it follows different rules.
In my experience it is up to the engraver and done to avoid having a single down-stem within a bunch of up-stems (some publishers, like Novello and OUP, seem to trend far more towards upstems, while others are more conservative). Not algorithmic to my knowledge.
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John Ruggero
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Re: Middle-line stem direction

Post by John Ruggero »

There is an extensive discussion relating to this subject at:

viewtopic.php?t=79

In the 18th century and into the 19th there seems to be a preference for up stems rather than down stems for the middle note, as well as a tendency to apply flexibility to the space notes around the middle line. Context was strongly considered in choosing stem direction, and the engravers tended to respect the composer's own choice. The composer's themselves did what seemed musically best in each situation. When and why this changed would be interesting to determine.

There is now greater recognition of the fact that inflexible rules regarding notational aspects like stem direction do not advance musical communication. I see increasing evidence of this in publications such as those by Wiener Urtext which try for a more authentic presentation of the text.
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Schonbergian
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Re: Middle-line stem direction

Post by Schonbergian »

Indeed, John. I initially believed it was because of computer defaults, but Ross' pre-computer reference is seemingly strict on the subject, as well as many late-20th century computer- and hand-engraved scores. Also would be interesting to find out why some publishers have a preference for upstems as the default rather than down.
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John Ruggero
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Re: Middle-line stem direction

Post by John Ruggero »

The copyist Arnold Arnstein was firm in his belief in the middle line down stem rule in the 1970's, and his career went back into the 1930's. I think the rule actually goes back to the late 19th century or earlier.
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OCTO
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Re: Middle-line stem direction

Post by OCTO »

Right, everything must be considered individually. See this example, tone Ab and B.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=79#p1094
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benwiggy
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Re: Middle-line stem direction

Post by benwiggy »

"We have heard it said that when the noteheads are above the third line, the stems are turned down, and when below the third line, the stems are turned up; also that when notes are on the third line, the stems are turned up if the stem of the following note is up, or down if the next note is down. But really such rules cannot be consistently followed."

William Gamble, Music Engraving and Printing, 1923.
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John Ruggero
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Re: Middle-line stem direction

Post by John Ruggero »

Having dealt now in great detail with autographs by both Beethoven and Chopin, I have seen that these composers, while so contrasting in style, have their own quite similar rules of stem direction that seems to operate on a "higher level" than our standard ones. They tend think in large numbers of tones when assigning stem direction, as if the notes were beamed, even when they are not. I am planning to start a thread on this in the future after I have worked with the autographs of other composers.
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