Chopin contradiction?

[musicus]

In the attached excerpt from Chopin's Nocturne Op.27 No.1, have a look at the penultimate measure. There is an Fz under the RH E# (which seems to apply to that E#) at the exact end of the decrescendo. How would you reconcile this? I have a theory but I believe it's wrong.

[Callasmaniac]

Might be continuation of the left hand arpeggio (with cresc.)?

[John Ruggero]

The E# is played by the left hand. Noice the missing quarter rest in the lower staff which indicates that the left hand note is to be found in the other staff. The E # is a very important note throughout the piece. Note the note on top of the last chord, which in a sense continues it. So it is fitting that it be emphasized with the fz. It also makes a beautiful sonic effect.

This is the kind of thing that is important to wonder about.

[musicus]

Thank you for your thoughtful comment. For me the passage is still unresolved
if the end of the decrescendo appears with a Fz. There are two opposing events here. One is the RH chord - specifically the F# - diminuendo into the E#. The other is the LH arpegg crescendo into the same E#. I play the E# with the RH. If the diminuendo sign is interpreted as a ritardando rather than a getting quieter, then the Fz can happen. This relates to the theory going around that dynamic markings during that era can refer to tempo rather than loudness/softness. Which is supported by the possible slowing down at the end of this piece - an interpretation of course.
I am not 100% on board with that theory but I can see how it can sometimes make sense.
Psychological too. Thinking of the beginning of Gaspard (Ravel), imagine it played in two ways, both ways at the same dynamic level. The first way in tempo; the second way much slower. Which way is "heard" quieter? Just saying.

The E# is played by the left hand. Noice the missing quarter rest in the lower staff which indicates that the left hand note is to be found in the other staff. The E # is a very important note throughout the piece. Note the note on top of the last chord, which in a sense continues it. So it is fitting that it be emphasized with the fz. It also makes a beautiful sonic effect.

This is the kind of thing that is important to wonder about.

[John Ruggero]

I think that it is a difficult passage to bring off successfully, because as you pointed out, the E# is also the resolution of the suspended F#.

I bring out the clashing F# G# strongly, to make the suspended effect clear as compensation for the sf effect necessary for the E# as part of a different voice that covers the soft resolution. I also play the low LH C# quite strongly at this point. All of this is marked by Chopin, which, since it would not normally be necessary, means something especially intense. Then I make a subito pp on the second C# in the LH so that I can make a strong cresc. up to the E#, which Chopin directs to be played by the LH because otherwise the LH will not have a good destination point to aim at musically and physically. The LH would then depart upward away from the keyboard in a dramatic gesture, while RH holds its two keys and the LH chord is held by the pedal. The two hands thus have two different roles to play that are best not combined. The RH is subsiding in resignation. The LH is rising up in a final upsurge of emotion.

The entire coda of the Nocturne, which is from the rallentando to the end, is at a slower pace than the rest, again as directed by Chopin. I think that any pianist would make a ritardando in the last two measures. It's almost impossible not to. And nothing special need to be read into the diminuendo hairpin. It is the music itself that calls for the ritardando.

[musicus]

Thank you again for your observations on this. What I do is imagine that I am composing it, and how would I do that. Possibly Chopin didn't view it as a problem at all. If he had made a slur between the F# and E#, then I could see the decrescendo applying to it. But he didn't, which I take to mean that the decrescendo applies only to the upper two notes which decay naturally. Hence the lower crescendo makes sense ending on the E# with Fz. So I play it Fz. BTW, this piece makes a nice combination with Beethoven's Moonlight - both of are in C# minor and both are Op.27. I've programmed them several times that way.

I think that it is a difficult passage to bring off successfully, because as you pointed out, the E# is also the resolution of the suspended F#.

I bring out the clashing F# G# strongly, to make the suspended effect clear as compensation for the sf effect necessary for the E# as part of a different voice that covers the soft resolution. I also play the low LH C# quite strongly at this point. All of this is marked by Chopin, which, since it would not normally be necessary, means something especially intense. Then I make a subito pp on the second C# in the LH so that I can make a strong cresc. up to the E#, which Chopin directs to be played by the LH because otherwise the LH will not have a good destination point to aim at musically and physically. The LH would then depart upward away from the keyboard in a dramatic gesture, while RH holds its two keys and the LH chord is held by the pedal. The two hands thus have two different roles to play that are best not combined. The RH is subsiding in resignation. The LH is rising up in a final upsurge of emotion.

The entire coda of the Nocturne, which is from the rallentando to the end, is at a slower pace than the rest, again as directed by Chopin. I think that any pianist would make a ritardando in the last two measures. It's almost impossible not to. And nothing special need to be read into the diminuendo hairpin. It is the music itself that calls for the ritardando.

[John Ruggero]

Slurs between suspensions and resolutions were so much a part of the lingo at that time and earlier that they were very often omitted as understood, so I wouldn't be too influenced by that. It would be interesting to go through Chopin's music to see how often he actually puts them in. It was a transitional time.

BTW, this piece makes a nice combination with Beethoven's Moonlight - both of are in C# minor and both are Op.27. I've programmed them several times that way.

The op. 27 thing is quite a coincidence, isn't it. (If it was...) There is another C# minor piece by Chopin that was influenced by the Moonlight: the Impromptu no. 4, that puts the triplets of the first movement of the sonata in the LH and the 16ths of the last movement in the RH, lifts a 16th passage note-for-note from the last movement of the sonata and has a middle section in D flat major, like the middle movement of the Beethoven. One reads that Chopin liked the Moonlight and also op. 26, with its funeral march that probably influenced his own, and that he didn't like much else by Beethoven. I doubt really that. I think he was as heavily influenced by Beethoven as the other Romantics.