Stem Direction question

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Fred G. Unn
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Re: Stem Direction question

Post by Fred G. Unn »

JJP wrote: 13 Oct 2023, 21:09 Others prefer the middle-line stem to always be down for consistency, unless there is some compelling reason to flip it. This way the middle-line pitch always has the same stem direction unless it is part of a beamed group. This is makes the middle-line stem consistent with any other line or space on the staff.
I'm in the stems-down always camp with this. Virtually no notation manual or house style guide published in the last 50 years recommends flexibility with this until Gould came along. The obvious reason is that it impairs sightreading. When the stem is down, I don't really even have to read the note. The fact that it is a second higher than the previous note and is flipped to stems down immediately orients my eye in the staff. When I read it with stems up, my eye quickly glances backwards to confirm my orientation. We're talking about hundredths of a second here, but to the sightreader it adds up.

Boosey & Hawkes (extreme duress, LOL)
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Schirmer
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Kurt Stone
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Ross
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etc. ...

IMO this really had been standardized for modern publications until Gould muddied the waters.
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Fred G. Unn
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Re: Stem Direction question

Post by Fred G. Unn »

Carl Rosenthal's book Practical Guide to Music Notation for Composers, Arrangers and Editors (1962) is one of my favorite little notation books that I never really see get discussed much. He has this on pages 3-4 where he mentions that "consistent stemming seems to permit easier and faster reading."

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John Ruggero
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Re: Stem Direction question

Post by John Ruggero »

That's a good point about reading, but not something I've ever noticed. I'll do some sight-reading today to test it out.

Arnstein was also a stem-down-on-the-middle-line-only guy. However, this rule may now be in flux. Some recent urtext editions are beginning to follow the original stem directions. So maybe Gould is keeping up with this latest trend. The impression I get from viewing older material is that composers were more concerned abut showing phrasing than making the music easier to sight-read.
Last edited by John Ruggero on 19 Oct 2023, 14:43, edited 1 time in total.
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NeeraWM
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Re: Stem Direction question

Post by NeeraWM »

Fred G. Unn wrote: 18 Oct 2023, 23:24 Carl Rosenthal's book Practical Guide to Music Notation for Composers, Arrangers and Editors (1962) is one of my favorite little notation books that I never really see get discussed much.
Maybe this is because it is not an easy book to find.
This is the first time I heard of it, and I've been so far unable to find a copy to purchase.
Even pasting the direct title into ABE Books returns 6 entries of Behind Bars.
Libraries that have it will not scan the whole book, of course.
Where would you suggest looking for it?
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Fred G. Unn
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Re: Stem Direction question

Post by Fred G. Unn »

John Ruggero wrote: 19 Oct 2023, 13:17 Arnstein was also a stem-down-on-the-middle-line-only guy. However, this rule may now be in flux.
I guess I don't see any musical reason for this rule to even be in flux, when it seems to have been "settled law" and applied fairly consistently for 50+ years now. "It looks prettier" really shouldn't take precedence over the benefit of reliability for the reader/sightreader of always having it stems-down.

When one thinks about it, really the entire evolution of music notation has been about adapting to serve the changing needs of the musicians. Take neumatic notation for example. It’s great for reminding a cantor of a monophonic melody (which they already have memorized anyway), but terrible at conveying rhythmic information. With the advent of polyphony, rhythmic precision obviously became much more important, so neumatic notation was gradually phased out in favor of our current system, which can more clearly and accurately convey rhythms.

Look at figured bass. It’s great at describing the basic functional harmonic structures of the Baroque, Classical, and early Romantic eras, less useful at late Romantic, and often not useful at all in Modern. Rimsky-Korsakov even wrote in 1886 in the forward to his Practical Manual of Harmony about the “now obsolete figured bass.” As it became less helpful for musicians, other methods of notation evolved, such as chord symbols, set notation, and other means of notating theoretical structures.

With the development of recording technology, sightreading took on a new importance. Mistakes could now be permanent. In a studio situation, mistakes could be very expensive if another take is required. While there was some limited consensus, in the 19th and early 20th centuries you can still find all sorts of note groupings that look strange to our modern eyes. By the mid-20th century most of these had standardized into our current system, at least for “traditional” notation, all for the benefit of the reader/sightreader. Professional musicians do not read simply from left to right, but instead process rhythms in familiar “chunks” of information. Modern note grouping and beaming rules help facilitate this.

From what I can tell, the rule about an unbeamed note on the middle line always being stems-down seemed to solidify in the 1950-60s, which makes sense as that was the heyday of the studio orchestra era. Having consistency with this helps the musician stay oriented on the staff so they are free to focus on other elements. A stems-up note here probably isn’t going to mess me up anymore than a dotted quarter on beat 2 in 4/4 would, but taken in the context of consistency for the reader, it seems like a backwards evolutionary move to allow this, when this has more or less been standardized for 50 years (except for Gould) and there is a clear benefit for the reader/sightreader. I guess it's the evolutionary backwards-ness of allowing stems-up here that makes it look so strange to me in modern notation.
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Fred G. Unn
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Re: Stem Direction question

Post by Fred G. Unn »

NeeraWM wrote: 19 Oct 2023, 13:47 Where would you suggest looking for it?
I would just set up an eBay alert to get notified when one pops up. I can't remember if I got mine on eBay, Abe Books, or elsewhere, but I've definitely bought lots of stuff after getting an eBay alert. I really like it because it's reasonably short at 85 pages, and doesn't do a ton of editorializing or in-depth discussion. As it's designed for composers and arrangers rather than copyists and engravers, it's basically just a fairly comprehensive "here's how you do it" book for those that want to notate their music correctly. (At least correctly in 1962 anyway.) I wish it were more widely available.

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John Ruggero
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Re: Stem Direction question

Post by John Ruggero »

Here's a page from a 1980 Wiener Urtext edition of Chopin's Nocturne op. 62 no. 2, which follows most of the layout of the manuscript:
Weiner Urtext.png
Weiner Urtext.png (231.01 KiB) Viewed 174908 times
Note the studious avoidance of changes of stem direction in the middle of figuration. I find this easier to read than constant changes of stem direction that break things up visually.
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Fred G. Unn
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Re: Stem Direction question

Post by Fred G. Unn »

I think there is something to be said for maintaining stem direction in historical work. I think there's also less of a reading/sightreading issue with solo piano work as it will most likely not be dropped in front of a pianist in a studio to be sightread at a recording. (For the same reason, smaller staff sizes are allowable for piano music that would never be ok for orchestral parts.) Bars 2 & 10 seem allowable as it continues the voice from the previous bar. Bars 5, 8, 15, 17, 19, etc, just seem "wrong" if this were a modern work. The staff distances seem pretty close to identical, except maybe system 2 is a bit wider. If the engraver was valuing consistent vertical spacing, then there's not much choice in m8 or m17 as the beam would run into the LH on beat 4, especially if they didn't plan well and had already etched the staves, LOL!

If this was a new piece that I was copying for a composer, I would strongly advocate for the modern standard though, including the rhythm in m13.
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Re: Stem Direction question

Post by JJP »

This is interesting. I was aware that many publishing standards defaulted to stem down. However, I have seen in practice, and discussed with colleagues, more flexibility especially when complex rhythms, slurs, or melodic shapes were involved.

I find it interesting, Fred, that you and I have differing opinions about stem direction for the same purpose of sight reading. I fully understand your reasoning, but I find some phrases read more easily with the stem up. Now I’m going to ask more performers and experienced copying colleagues about this to see if I come across a general preference.

I suspect that many copyists today default to stem-down because that’s what their software does by default. Computers have made many of us think less about why things are the way they are. Which is also why I love this discussion.
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NeeraWM
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Re: Stem Direction question

Post by NeeraWM »

Fred G. Unn wrote: 19 Oct 2023, 14:02 I would just set up an eBay alert to get notified when one pops up. I can't remember if I got mine on eBay, Abe Books, or elsewhere, but I've definitely bought lots of stuff after getting an eBay alert. [...] I wish it were more widely available.
I spent some time looking for the publisher (MCA), which appears to have been absorbed by Universal Music Group in the '90s.
It seems way out of print, a true pity.

Looking at the Wiener Urtext sample, were I to engrave this, I would need to think twice or thrice before changing stem directions like that.
As JJP said, we give too much for granted because of the softwares we use, forgetting that behind each line of code there is—for some time more at least—a human typing it.
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