Chopin Impromptu in C# minor Op. 66 and cautionary accidentals

NeeraWM · Post by **NeeraWM** » 21 Jul 2025, 07:01

Dear all,
I have been tasked with re-engraving Chopin's most famous Impromptu in C# minor, Op. 66 (actually posthumous).

After completing the note-copying I couldn't help but notice something: every published edition I could find uses very few cautionary accidentals compared to what Dorico does with sensible defaults. For now I have same octave in following bar checked as well as different octave in same bar, but not different octave in following bar. Still, the amount of extra accidentals placed by Dorico is staggering!

I guess my doubts are twofold:
(1) is piano music from the Romantic era following different general rules to simplify reading? My assumption is that, there being already four sharps as key signature, the extra information provided by cautionary accidentals in such chromatic music would provide too much distraction
(2) Chopin's manuscript has no cautionary whatsoever, nor slurs, nor dynamics. Should that be followed instead?

As a cellist, and thus dealing with very few notes at a time, I vastly prefer cautionary accidentals to be there, but my detective instinct tells me piano music may need to behave much differently.

What do you think and, most importantly, what is your experience?
Thanks!

John Ruggero · Post by **John Ruggero** » 21 Jul 2025, 12:38

An example?:

: op 66.png (1.28 MiB) Viewed 3078 times

You are dealing with two somewhat related issues.

1. The older composers (followed closely by the publishers of the time) didn't necessarily use cautionaries according to fixed rules, like a computer program would. They inserted cautionaries only when there were good reasons for them, i.e. that any reasonably intelligent musician would have doubts about the correct notes. So that is what you are seeing in both manuscripts and the various first editions.

2. Current standard practice in piano music is looser than for instrumental parts because of the issue you just encountered. While there is often strict adherence to "the rules", there is also recognition that this can lead to unwanted clutter. So common sense tends to prevail.

You could just follow good current editions. I have the Wiener Urtext, for example, which has both versions of the piece and seems to follow the original accidentals. (But I haven't checked carefully.)

Incidentally are you using the Chopin Variorum edition? It is wonderful. One can compare all the sources measure by measure. https://chopinonline.ac.uk

NeeraWM · Post by **NeeraWM** » 21 Jul 2025, 14:47

Thank you John!
If I understood correctly, you would suggest following a good modern edition which has fewer accidentals.
Sadly Wiener Urtext is not available digitally and I can't find it on nkoda. Shipping would cost more than the edition itself at the moment.
I was not aware of the existence of two versions—yes, my bad.

For now, I have used the Fontana edition to copy the material (Photoscore+cleaning) and the Paderecki edition to check.
Could you enlighten me on how to check the two versions reliably through the available sources (e.g., the ones on the excellent website you linked to) or what sources to use? On nkoda I have access to Durand, Ricordi, Faber, Schott, Salabert.
I could also purchase the latest Henle on their library app.
If you can guide me towards what to use it would be super helpful because I now feel a bit lost!

John Ruggero · Post by **John Ruggero** » 21 Jul 2025, 15:36

Yes, I would follow a good modern edition regarding the accidentals. The latest Henle is fine and has the second final version (see below).

This is a special piece to edit/engrave because of the two versions. (And anything by Chopin is a challenge because of the multiple first editions that have to be taken into account.) Up until the rediscovery of the second version in 1962 by A. Rubenstein, only the original sketch (from which the first editions were printed) was known. The second version was completely revised (many notes changed, extensive indications added) and looks like any other of Chopin's later final versions ready for the engraver. So the second version is the one to work from if you can. But I am not clear about its copyright status.

To use the Chopin site you navigate to "Chopin Variorum Edition", then find the work in the list of works, which will take you to this:

: op 66 sources.png (295.12 KiB) Viewed 3057 times

Then you can select one of the sources, (in this case is A, the final version I mentioned) which will look like this

: op 66 Source A.png (791.47 KiB) Viewed 3057 times

Then you can select any measure, a red box will appear around it, and when you double click the box, it will give you that measure in all the sources! Pretty amazing. If only all composers of the past had a site like this!

: op 66 final.png (922.92 KiB) Viewed 3057 times

NeeraWM · Post by **NeeraWM** » 21 Jul 2025, 15:58

I played a bit with the website and it is indeed amazing.
I will purchase the Henle version, then, since I believe none of the sources on the website include the second version.

Now, if that version was discovered in 1962 and somehow registered, it would still be under copyright.
But is it still a copy by Chopin's hand, or belonging to Chopin's times in any case? If so, that would make it public domain to use as a source—I believe.

John Ruggero · Post by **John Ruggero** » 21 Jul 2025, 16:05

Version A on the Chopin Variorum site IS the second and final version. So perhaps it is then in the public domain. I am not sure, however. The older version is shown as Copy C1 and C2, so you can now compare all the versions. You will see how superior version A is to the rest. It is a wonderful lesson in revision from a great composer.

NeeraWM · Post by **NeeraWM** » 21 Jul 2025, 16:15

Ah ok! Great!
I thought the autograph (A) was the first version, with two copies of it as C1 and C2.
Thank you for clarifying!

John Ruggero · Post by **John Ruggero** » 21 Jul 2025, 19:04

I though so at first too, but then I looked at the first three measures. Note the slur to measure 3 indicating that there is a finger interchange on the lower G# 5-2 to connect to the low C#. And the lower C# is now stemmed on its own because it is a separate structural element that reappears only at the beginning of the middle part, and the beginning of the coda, which it then dominates.

The so-called Fantasy-Impromptu (actually called Impromptu by the composer) is a fascinating piece. There is strong evidence that it was inspired by Beethoven's op. 27. no. 2, the Moonlight Sonata, which is a piece Chopin liked and a piece he often used in his teaching.

Chopin's piece encapsulates the entire three movement Beethoven sonata and in the same key of C# minor. The left hand triplets are derived from the right hand triplets of the first movement of the Beethoven. On top of the triplets, he places 16th patterns derived from third movement of the Beethoven. M. 8 is an exact quote from a passage at the end of the Beethoven. The turn figure G#-A-G#-Fx-G# and the arpeggiated 16ths notes are also connected with the third movement. The middle section is in D flat, just like the second movement of the Beethoven. The overall shape of opening few measures of famous melody of the middle section resembles the first few measures of the melody of the second movement of the Beethoven.

We know that Chopin performed the piece relatively frequently and that it was a favorite among his friends. The question is why he never published it. The discovery of the revised version indicates that he may well have intended to, at least at some point. However, some have theorized that he was or became aware of the strong connections with the Beethoven, and that this dissuaded him from doing so.

I can well imagine him being inspired by playing the Beethoven, and then improvising this piece on the spot, since according to reports, he appears to have been the greatest improvisor after Beethoven.

John Ruggero · Post by **John Ruggero** » 22 Jul 2025, 15:24

Here are examples that show the connection between the last movement of Beethoven's op. 27 no. 2 and the "Fantasy-Impromtu". Five elements come from the coda of the Beethoven to form both the beginning and ending of Chopin's A sections. The use of the final moments of a piece might well be expected from someone (Chopin) who has just played a piece (the Beethoven sonata) and then starts to improvise on it. Observe the note-for-note quotation of no. 3 and the use of the dissonant A natural as the climactic tone in both pieces: