crowded voices

[OCTO]

Hello all.
I need advice regarding this passage for violin.

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Do you think it is a good way to notate like that? I have problem with voicing: in the first measure and in the second, combining with the second voice + grace notes...
Does it look good to you?

[Peter West]

There are options, but I don't think any would be significantly clearer. Double stopping pitches less than 3rd will always be difficult, especially with dotted notes. Compared with a keyboard where the one hand plays everything, here you need to be clear how the music on each string lines up. I think this is fine. Some people might prefer the first bar to have the notes reversed so the D is on the left, and displace the dot. This will not confuse the rhythm on this occasion as the tie off the C sharp makes all clear, but i think that is an equally good solution, not a better one.

In Bar 2 this seems to imply that the C sharp is sounded before the whole note D. If you want the D and C sharp sounded together, put a D grace note (stem up) tied to the D whole note. Then you won't need the bracket on the C nat/D

[OCTO]

Maybe I should move behind the first triplet...? In that case and the grace note should be more compact to the note-head..

[erelievonen]

Maybe I should move behind the first triplet...? In that case and the grace note should be more compact to the note-head..

I would try that (and then decide which looks clearer).
I think the bracket over C and D is not necessary in either case.
If you choose to keep the whole note to the left side, it would look better to make the triplet s evenly spaced.

There is an incongruence in the 2nd bar: the upper voice implies one bow stroke, but the lower voice two. Either, draw a slur under the whole bar in the 2nd voice, or break the whole note into and .

[John Ruggero]

I had an outrageous thought. A double-staffed violin part? Why not? There are triple and quadruple staffed piano solos.

Wait a minute..the Kodaly solo cello sonata has numerous double staffed areas including one quite like yours in the third movement.

[OCTO]

I think I will try that suggestion by erelievonen.

I didn't know that Kodály's Sonata has that approach. I will check.
So far no double staffed violin part here, as long it is enough legible...

[David Ward]

I didn't know that Kodály's Sonata has that approach. I will check.
So far no double staffed violin part here, as long it is enough legible...

A week tomorrow (Thurs 29 Oct) I'm due to hear Rohan de Saram play the Kodály Sonata for solo cello, which he had the chance to discuss with the composer himself in 1960. After next week's concert, I'm due to be staying the night in the same house as Rohan and his wife, so should you have any questions you'd like me to ask him about the notation, I'd be very happy to ask them.

[Peter West]

I've seen a number of cello parts on 2 staves. And I know Xenakis once wrote a piano piece with 10 staves (one for each finger), so whatever works. But I'd suggest only doing something like that if it's absolutely necessary. And I don't think it is here.

[erelievonen]

I've seen a number of cello parts on 2 staves. And I know Xenakis once wrote a piano piece with 10 staves (one for each finger), so whatever works. But I'd suggest only doing something like that if it's absolutely necessary. And I don't think it is here.

I agree.
I remember having seen 2-stave cello parts only when such multiple stops (or quickly leaping figures) were involved that had to be notated using both bass and treble clefs.
In a violin part the need for 2 different clefs would not arise.

[John Ruggero]

That is a unique opportunity, David, please do inquire about the Kodaly notation.

The Kodaly Sonata is public domain for me, but not for you, and given the very aggressive nature of Universal's copyright protection dept. I decided to fabricate some Kodaly that is similar to the example in the Sonata. The Kodaly is in two bass clefs at this point, as in the fabrication. The Kodaly is available at IMSLP and is of interest in many notational aspects, including scordatura.

OCTO 1 is the way Arnstein might have notated the rhythm, since he was very concerned about seeing the center of a 4/4 measure. However an exception was made for quarter-half-quarter syncopation, and this exception probably applies to OCTO 2. I personally prefer OCTO 2, but thought it would be interesting to compare.

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