circa

Discuss the rules of notation, standard notation practices, efficient notation practices and graphic design.
Hector Pascal
Posts: 94
Joined: 17 Oct 2021, 23:15

circa

Post by Hector Pascal »

Hi all,
Which format of "circa" should I use? I see all of these variations out there. My personal preference is A. I believe the full stop should not be used when the abbreviation of circa ends with the letter "a" (being the final letter of circa), but I stand to be corrected...!

A. :4 = c. 120

B. :4 = ca. 120

C. :4 = ca 120

D. :4 = c. 120

E. :4 = ca. 120

F. :4 = ca 120

Thanking you!
Cheers,
HP.
User avatar
David Ward
Posts: 526
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 19:50
Location: Aberdeenshire, Scotland
Contact:

Re: circa

Post by David Ward »

D would be my preference.

As for abbreviation full stops, these are now much less used in the UK than in the US (there are some other respects in which US English is now more old fashioned or traditional that ‘British English’ [whatever that tautology is supposed to mean - in Scotland it is not the same as in England &c], but that is a discussion for elsewhere).
Finale 25.5 & F 26.3.1
Mac OS 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
https://composers-uk.com/davidward/news-links/
Anders Hedelin
Posts: 274
Joined: 16 Aug 2017, 16:36
Location: Sweden

Re: circa

Post by Anders Hedelin »

Now and then I get jobs where the language in use is English. David's comment, instructive as it is, makes the issue quite complicated. Isn't there any "one way" to write this circa abbreviation for us non-native English speakers, to get away with?
Finale 26, 27 on Windows 10
User avatar
David Ward
Posts: 526
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 19:50
Location: Aberdeenshire, Scotland
Contact:

Re: circa

Post by David Ward »

Anders Hedelin wrote: 30 May 2023, 19:36 … … … Isn't there any "one way" to write this circa abbreviation… … ?
Probably not any one way, but I suggest Hector's D version as the one least likely to excite comment. As far as I can find, Gould has nothing to say on the subject.

Another (perhaps whimsical) thought: the sign ≈ means approximately equal to when used by mathematicians. Has anyone ever seen :4 ≈ 120 in a musical score?

I have written :4 ≤ 152 in a score, ie less than or equal to 152, intending it to imply that the performer should play as near to 152 as is practical.

For most (but not all) purposes metronome markings are approximations anyway…
Last edited by David Ward on 30 May 2023, 21:03, edited 1 time in total.
Finale 25.5 & F 26.3.1
Mac OS 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
https://composers-uk.com/davidward/news-links/
hautbois baryton
Posts: 76
Joined: 06 Jan 2018, 17:06

Re: circa

Post by hautbois baryton »

I believe that C would be the most "correct*" but any of the above should get the message across without question.

*Abbreviations where the ending letter of the abbreviated form matches the unabbreviated term do not require a period (full stop), and foreign words should be italicized.
Composer and engraver
Anders Hedelin
Posts: 274
Joined: 16 Aug 2017, 16:36
Location: Sweden

Re: circa

Post by Anders Hedelin »

David Ward wrote: 30 May 2023, 20:45 Another (perhaps whimsical) thought: the sign ≈ means approximately equal to when used by mathematicians. Has anyone ever seen :4 ≈ 120 in a musical score?
I have written :4 ≤ 152 in a score, ie less than or equal to 152, intending it to imply that the performer should play as near to 152 as is practical.
Actually I've seen the ≈ in use occasionally. It would be quite understandable to most people, I think.

The ≤ seems to me more for the mathematically educated, even if it's clear to me because I happen to remember it from my school days.
Finale 26, 27 on Windows 10
User avatar
John Ruggero
Posts: 2453
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 14:25
Location: Raleigh, NC USA

Re: circa

Post by John Ruggero »

No matter what you write, the player(s) will play it at "about" 120. So you could leave off the circa and be done with it.
M1 Mac mini (OS 12.4), Dorico, Finale 25.5, GPO 4, Affinity Publisher 2, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard maestro

http://www.cantilenapress.com
Hector Pascal
Posts: 94
Joined: 17 Oct 2021, 23:15

Re: circa

Post by Hector Pascal »

Thanks, everyone, for the replies! There was much food for thought down this rabbit hole!
Cheers and thanks,
Hector.
MichelRE
Posts: 251
Joined: 07 Aug 2021, 17:11

Re: circa

Post by MichelRE »

John Ruggero wrote: 31 May 2023, 02:53 No matter what you write, the player(s) will play it at "about" 120. So you could leave off the circa and be done with it.
one of my works was performed last summer and autumn, three times by two different orchestras.

and honestly, no two performances were at the same speed, and this is including the two performances with the same orchestra under the same conductor.

my tempo marking was a simple, clear :4 = tempo marking. no circa.

So I agree, the circa is really not necessary as musicians will already play the music at "around" that tempo.
benwiggy
Posts: 835
Joined: 11 Apr 2016, 19:42

Re: circa

Post by benwiggy »

Or the conductor/performer will play it at whatever tempo they like, regardless of the instruction. :lol:

I often tell a story about a 'well-known composer', who came into a Cathedral, where he could hear one of his pieces being played on the organ.
He found the Organ Scholar at the console, and said "Lovely playing; but why are you doing it at that speed?"
The Scholar replied: "That's the metronome mark in the score."
"Oh, I shouldn't pay any attention to that...."
Post Reply