Scores in C or transposing?

[David Ward]

Conductor and composer Esa-Pekka Salonen posted this on Twitter (X) this morning:

“Note to all composers: write your scores in C. The usual octave transpositions are OK. I spent 6 weeks deciphering the chords in Elektra. After that I decided I’ll not put any conductor colleagues through that unnecessary ordeal with my own scores.”

I'd be interested to read opinions on this from members of this forum. I prefer to write in the score what I expect the player to see in the part, so my scores are all transposing. At my age (83) I'm unlikely to change my habit of doing this. To my eye, my scores just look ‘wrong’ in non-transposing notation.

Salonen cites Elektra, but then Strauss's transpositions can be particularly troublesome, especially those for his horns, and in Die Frau ohne Schatten the transpositions for the Wagner tubas are especially odd.

[OCTO]

Once he also said that his own music has changed since he started using a notation software for composing (or it was Digital Performer?).

Some great composers hate transposed scores. Prokofiev hated all kind of "useless constrains" that didn't result in a plain output. He notated the English horn in alto clef and in C. Takemitsu wrote everything in C.

However, I totally disagree with Salonen. Having difficulty in reading directly from transposed score is not a thing one should be proud of, or make fun of it. It is like wishing to "rewrite" Strauss because you don't understand the language. The transposed scores are the natural language, they display exact power of each instrument. And it is totally possible to learn reading and playing transposed scores directly.

<rant>Easier doesn't mean "better". All sort of solutions in all domains in world of today (post 2020) strive for easier, simpler, dumber shortcuts. Be rich quick and without effort. Be an influencer knowing nothing. Etc.</rant>

[MichelRE]

no conductor I've ever spoken to has ever said to me "I'd rather see the score in C".

as a matter of fact, most have expressed extreme disdain for any scores "in C".

[John Ruggero]

I seem to recall that there was a very famous 20th century conductor who had the sacrificial dance in the Rite of Spring rebarred in 4/4.

During my Arnstein days, we transposed a lot of parts from scores in C; but it cost the composer more.

[hautbois baryton]

Just say no to C scores!

[JJP]

I know a very skilled composer and conductor who prefers writing in concert but conducting from transposed. Thanks to digital notation, he does exactly that. He writes in concert, then when finished, he switches to transposed, checks the score and makes any final adjustments, then sends it to be copied.

From that point on, the score remains transposed. He is excellent at reading transposed, and can sit at the piano and play a transposed score; so it’s not an issue with his reading. He simply has found he prefers writing in concert. Yet, a concert score feels strange to him on the podium because it doesn’t look like it sounds.

[John Ruggero]

Yet, a concert score feels strange to him on the podium because it doesn’t look like it sounds.

I guess when a transposed score looks like it sounds, you are definitely a good score reader.

[OCTO]

Yet, a concert score feels strange to him on the podium because it doesn’t look like it sounds.

I guess when a transposed score looks like it sounds, you are definitely a good score reader.

The transposed score does sound as it looks!

[Fred G. Unn]

I seem to recall that there was a very famous 20th century conductor who had the sacrificial dance in the Rite of Spring rebarred in 4/4.

IIRC, there was a story about a choreographer doing that, as the dancers thought of everything in groups of 4 (or 8) counts.

Transposed score always for me. The conductor should see what the players see, and it makes rehearsals go much more smoothly. My own sightreading is pretty good for jazz scores anyway (all Saxes, Bb Clarinets, Bb Trumpets), and the few times I've had to conduct from concert scores it actually messes me up as my brain is just used to transposing those instruments automatically. (Writing in concert is no problem though.) Reading Eng. Hn, A Clarinets, F Hn., etc., takes me a bit longer as I'm out of practice, LOL!

But ...

I can understand the "in C" convention for film scores and studio dates. The conductor is often sightreading too, and any errors, revisions, cuts, rewrites, etc., need to be addressed immediately as studio time with an orchestra is very expensive. A 60 member orchestra at scale in a decent studio is gonna cost about $100 a minute or so, so 5 extra minutes for the M.D. to figure out how to revoice something that isn't working from a transposed score is about $500! There's not really a lot of rehearsal, just a read-down and then a take, so prioritizing timesaving over ease of rehearsal does make some financial sense in those genres.

[benwiggy]

I guess it's a bit similar to how singers used to sing from 4 different clefs, and if you needed to pitch your next entry by reference to another part, you'd have to read whichever C-clef was being used on each staff.

But these days, most singers would at best only be able to sing 'relatively' from a C-clef, and not pitch off the other staves.

(My first appearance at a major London church involved singing some 10-part Venetian mass, and the edition was some old 'scholarly' thing in C-clefs. I just about got away with it....)

I'm ever thankful that voices aren't transposing instruments...!