Ravel Pavane rhythmical question

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John Ruggero
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Re: Ravel Pavane rhythmical question

Post by John Ruggero »

You're very welcome, Neera. Placing the rest on the high note clarifies the rhythm, so I think that you are right to do that. Could be the first time the measure has been correctly engraved!
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NeeraWM
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Joined: 30 Nov 2021, 12:11

Re: Ravel Pavane rhythmical question

Post by NeeraWM »

... and it is a festival of wrong or forgotten accidentals!
NeeraWM
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Joined: 30 Nov 2021, 12:11

Re: Ravel Pavane rhythmical question

Post by NeeraWM »

Here's another one, bar 53:
Screenshot 2025-01-19 (18.58.02).jpeg
Screenshot 2025-01-19 (18.58.02).jpeg (578.65 KiB) Viewed 995 times
The three F-G cross handing notes are written in a way that places them on 8th 6-7-8 of the bar.
If that is correct, the upbeat to 54 is in the 9th 8th of the bar.
Henle edition 1260, from the screenshot above inside of the Henle Library app, doesn't add any commentary.
Is this actually a "added value bar" of 4/4+1/8 without an explicit time signature?

Or is it another mistake?
John Ruggero
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Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 14:25
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Re: Ravel Pavane rhythmical question

Post by John Ruggero »

The C is played simultaneously with the G-E on the last 1/8th of the measure. The Henle engraver mistakenly separates the two, which are very close together in the original and all other editions that I am familiar with. Check out IMSLP. I am really surprised at what Henle has done here, and you should write them.
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NeeraWM
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Re: Ravel Pavane rhythmical question

Post by NeeraWM »

I will definitely write them about this.
Also, if you have this edition handy, check note 3 of the LH at the very beginning.
They write C3 (below middle-C), while everyone else writes E3.
John Ruggero
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Re: Ravel Pavane rhythmical question

Post by John Ruggero »

I can only see the online preview that doesn't include the first page. However, this sounds like another uncharacteristic Henle error. There is no note about it at the back and the orchestral version has a definite E.
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NeeraWM
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Re: Ravel Pavane rhythmical question

Post by NeeraWM »

IMG_873E0CE55C4E-1.jpeg
IMG_873E0CE55C4E-1.jpeg (589.2 KiB) Viewed 913 times
I have reported both these and several issues with the usability of their iPad app to the Editorial Department.
John Ruggero
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Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 14:25
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Re: Ravel Pavane rhythmical question

Post by John Ruggero »

Strange goings-on in this edition. The piano braces are off center.

Also note the anti-physical fingering in the first measures forcing the 3rd and 4th fingers to work against each other. Its like someone is saying, the body should be able to do it this way comfortably and therefore must, even though it can't and hates it. Suggested fingering:
fingering.png
fingering.png (12.44 KiB) Viewed 905 times
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NeeraWM
Posts: 306
Joined: 30 Nov 2021, 12:11

Re: Ravel Pavane rhythmical question

Post by NeeraWM »

Wow, John! You are a true hunter!
I had to look twice before noticing it... but yes, now that I see it I cannot erase it from my view!

Luckily these fingerings are not Ravel's. I even wonder what is the purpose of making an Urtext and then adding fingerings that were not in the original text. When I prepare my editions, I always provide two copies, one with the original (or no) fingerings, and one with my suggestions.
John Ruggero
Posts: 2619
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 14:25
Location: Raleigh, NC USA

Re: Ravel Pavane rhythmical question

Post by John Ruggero »

The braces look off center in the online preview, as well as your examples, so I guess it is not an artifact of the iPad version with that tiny little title at the top.

About fingering. Most urtext edition that I am aware of, as opposed to critical editions, have fingering and other performance suggestions. This is one of the selling points of editions of the standard literature. Many pianists have several editions of the Beethoven piano sonatas, for example, because the best fingering is so difficult to find and it's helpful to try fingerings and other performance directions by others that might not have occurred to one. I am sure it is the same in the string literature. So all the Henle piano solo editions have fingering, as does the Wiener Urtext, Peters etc.

The real problem with the fingering in these editions is not its presence, but its quality. There is a big difference between the fingering of a Schenker, an Arrau, or a Schnabel, which is the outgrowth of a lifetime of experience with the works being edited, and someone less intimately connected with the music they are fingering.
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