NOTATIO

Dear members of the forum,

With the recent re-release of some MTF music fonts, I figured this would be a good occasion have a discussion of our "go-to" engraver fonts.

For those who haven't seen it yet, re-released as SMuFL are the following:

• MTF-Arnold (UE-style)

• MTF-Beethoven (Henle-style)

• MTF-Cadence (inspired by Lilypond's Emmentaler font)

• MTF-Haydn (Peters-style)

• MTF-Scorlatti (SCORE-style)

(these are currently on an introductory sale: https://www.notationcentral.com/product-tag/mtf/)

Let’s hope for other MTF-re-releases, especially MTF-Ross, and MTF-Improviso (one of the best all-purpose handwritten fonts in my opinion)

Many of you have an appreciation for the "vintage" art of engraving (bold, legible, warm font styles). I wonder what some of your favourite music fonts for that purpose are?

Personally, I am very fond of the old UE-look (seen e.g. in the masterful engraving of Alban Berg’s "Lulu"). As such, I welcome its emulation in the MTF-Arnold font – though the down-stem 8th-flags in MTF-Arnold take some getting used-to... the original UE-style looks more balanced to my eyes:
Also the following fonts I find particularly well balanced and tasteful:

• Bravura – of course a very solid and extensive font, but may become a bit "stale", as it’s the default option for Dorico with which more and more scores will be produced

• Sebastian – a good and easy substitue with a very likeable look

• Da Capo (Schott-style) and Vintage BH (Breitkopf & Härtel style) by Norfonts I find very well made and high-quality. They include multiple weights, of which I like the bold ones best. (by the way, Nor, any chance for another sale soon? :P)

• VintageGMHA (Henle-style) and VintageECP1 (Peters style) by Dr. Karaatanassov (wessmusic) LINK – Can anyone compare these to the MTF versions (Beethoven and Haydn)? wessmusic is a very well-respected member of the community and has an amazing eye for the intricacies of music notation. Sadly, I think his fonts are not (yet?) available as SMuFL versions? Can they be used in Dorico?

I’m looking forward to your comments and favourite music typefaces!

The reason you like that flag is because it's a completely different font. That second example you gave is not the old style, but a SCORE notehead, flag, and flat.

Roland_Gurt wrote: ↑28 Feb 2025, 21:57

• MTF-Cadence (Abraham Lee’s own design?)

Isn’t that inspired by LilyPond’s default font Emmentaler?

Emmentaler: Cadence:

JoshNichols wrote: ↑03 Mar 2025, 15:51 The reason you like that flag is because it's a completely different font. That second example you gave is not the old style, but a SCORE notehead, flag, and flat.

Dear Josh, I commend your keen eye, you’re absolutely right! I originally wanted to post an excerpt from my Lulu vocal score, but when I saw that was still under copyright, I picked a part from Berg’s Violin concerto on IMSLP (which as I noticed now indeed was produced in 1996) without looking closely – my apologies!

Allow me to correct myself with examples from 1912 (Mahler’s 9th) and 1938 (Solo part from Berg’s concerto): There is of course some variance as usual in hand-engraved scores (especially in the second Mahler example where one can see a different flag). Yet I would maintain that these examples look a bit more "elegant" (could also be the scan) than the flags in MTF Arnold (which end in a thicker stroke). That’s just my taste of course, and nothing to take away from Abraham Lee’s terrific work, which makes it possible today to approach the styles of these great publishers!

Josh, may I ask you about your go-to music typefaces? If I remember correctly, you comissioned a "Sovietta" font based on soviet publishing styles which looked very fine; and maybe you are using other fonts by MTF?

best regards!

MalteM wrote: ↑04 Mar 2025, 15:42

Roland_Gurt wrote: ↑28 Feb 2025, 21:57

• MTF-Cadence (Abraham Lee’s own design?)

Isn’t that inspired by LilyPond’s default font Emmentaler?

Emmentaler:
Bildschirmfoto vom 2025-03-04 16-39-16.png

Cadence:
Bildschirmfoto vom 2025-03-04 16-39-32.png

I remember Abraham talking about how there were *some* things about Emmentaler that he didn't like, and that he wanted to bring better balance... and I agree with him. Emmentaler is much to curvy for my taste in the clef, and some of the ornament and traditional markings are too large/fancy.

Roland_Gurt wrote: ↑04 Mar 2025, 15:52

JoshNichols wrote: ↑03 Mar 2025, 15:51 The reason you like that flag is because it's a completely different font. That second example you gave is not the old style, but a SCORE notehead, flag, and flat.

Dear Josh, I commend your keen eye, you’re absolutely right! I originally wanted to post an excerpt from my Lulu vocal score, but when I saw that was still under copyright, I picked a part from Berg’s Violin concerto on IMSLP (which as I noticed now indeed was produced in 1996) without looking closely – my apologies!

Allow me to correct myself with examples from 1912 (Mahler’s 9th) and 1938 (Solo part from Berg’s concerto):
Mahler-9-double-bass-p-6.png
Mahler-9-double-bass-p-8.png
Berg-Violin-concerto-Solo-part-p-5.png

There is of course some variance as usual in hand-engraved scores (especially in the second Mahler example where one can see a different flag). Yet I would maintain that these examples look a bit more "elegant" (could also be the scan) than the flags in MTF Arnold (which end in a thicker stroke). That’s just my taste of course, and nothing to take away from Abraham Lee’s terrific work, which makes it possible today to approach the styles of these great publishers!

Josh, may I ask you about your go-to music typefaces? If I remember correctly, you comissioned a "Sovietta" font based on soviet publishing styles which looked very fine; and maybe you are using other fonts by MTF?

best regards!

I think you identified what makes old scores so charming, even when their fonts are copied nearly exactly, and that is in itself a paradox. That's because there's always some variation, something that makes it human, in old hand-engraved scores. I always notice the subtlety of the position of clefs at the beginning of systems, and how they can be a hair off, but still look gorgeous. There's also a softness that comes from pressing a punch into a soft piece of metal (or pewter, or lead). As soon as you get to digital stuff, you have to be *really* intentional about those "soft" points, but it is never quite the same.

What Abraham has done in his creations is done a really fine job of approximating it with the true precision of an engraving program.

I did commissioned a Soviet reprint by Abraham some years ago, and we got as far as the clefs, half note, and whole note (I hope to have someone complete it someday). I have developed house styles using almost exclusively his fonts:

• Sebastian: I use this in hymn inserts for churches who need a relatively compact but bold font set for incidental works.
  Scorlatti: I use this mainly in educational materials, and in general engraving.
  Cadence: I use this for it's breadth of glyphs, and especially in historic re-engravings of historic works. I'm in love with the half notes and whole notes.
  Arnold: I use this specifically for editing work of old orchestral parts... the boldness paired at high point sizes makes this a perfect font for stand work in strings, for example.
  Haydn is tricky, but I also use this as a historic set, particularly if I am going for Brahms, or anything from the 19th century.

So, if you know anyone who might be interested in completing my Soviet-era font, DM me!

Dear Malte, dear Josh,

JoshNichols wrote: ↑04 Mar 2025, 19:16

MalteM wrote: ↑04 Mar 2025, 15:42

Roland_Gurt wrote: ↑28 Feb 2025, 21:57

• MTF-Cadence (Abraham Lee’s own design?)

Isn’t that inspired by LilyPond’s default font Emmentaler?

I remember Abraham talking about how there were *some* things about Emmentaler that he didn't like, and that he wanted to bring better balance... and I agree with him. Emmentaler is much to curvy for my taste in the clef, and some of the ornament and traditional markings are too large/fancy.

Thank you for this information about MTF-Cadence, I will edit it into my original post!

JoshNichols wrote: ↑04 Mar 2025, 19:26 I think you identified what makes old scores so charming, even when their fonts are copied nearly exactly, and that is in itself a paradox. That's because there's always some variation, something that makes it human, in old hand-engraved scores. I always notice the subtlety of the position of clefs at the beginning of systems, and how they can be a hair off, but still look gorgeous. There's also a softness that comes from pressing a punch into a soft piece of metal (or pewter, or lead). As soon as you get to digital stuff, you have to be *really* intentional about those "soft" points, but it is never quite the same.

What Abraham has done in his creations is done a really fine job of approximating it with the true precision of an engraving program.

Well put, I fully agree! Regarding variation: in the Mahler 9 samples posted above, I can’t help but wonder if the wider 8th flag angle in the 2nd image was deliberately chosen to give the Solo-passage a more "extroverted" look...
One can fantasize about (as some have proposed) even using a "bold" vs "regular" version of a music typeface to emphasize important passages, in a similar way that italics and bold font variations are used for text.

JoshNichols wrote: ↑04 Mar 2025, 19:26 I have developed house styles using almost exclusively his fonts:

Yes, MTF-Arnold seems really well suited for parts.
Haydn, while maybe too excentric for modern works (flags, clef), does have that "magical" aura that seems to elicit a spirited and musical performance from players – as opposed to, say, a very digital and cool looking font, which might put one more into the mindset of playing music of mechanical or repetitive qualities. Speaking about nuances of course...
I think Vintage BH looks like a good stand-in for Haydn in that regard, with a slightly more neutral appearance and IMO great legibility for chords in keyboard music.

Truly, we are lucky to have a lot of good options today!

JoshNichols wrote: ↑04 Mar 2025, 19:26 So, if you know anyone who might be interested in completing my Soviet-era font, DM me!

Maybe one of the gifted font creators of the community will be interested some time, like @benwiggy, @NorFonts, @Dan Kreider – from the image you posted here, it looks like a beautiful and unique style! I suppose many folks would appreciate it being made publicly available for sale eventually.