NOTATIO

I'm copying Fauré's Cantique de Jean Racine, and I have lots of questions about the beaming in the keyboard part. There's a tuplet texture all the way through.

Firstly, is the cross-staff really advantageous? Wouldn't this be clearer if it was all in one staff? Ab below isn't that low; neither is D above. Secondly, similar phrases sometimes use centred beams and sometimes not. Why?
Finally, on the last beat: is the stem from the A to the C really necessary?
The original is here:
https://s9.imslp.org/files/imglnks/usim ... ne--EA.pdf

There's also inconsistencies in the slurring. Most of the time, phrases like this have the slur flipped beneath (potentially looking like two tied notes).

But these three are done differently.

I guess it is Dorico.

I have comment regarding the kerning.  For my eyes, this looks so extremely odd.  Is this the default spacing?

No: I'm talking about the original beaming and slurring that can be seen in the linked image.

Nevermind the spacing: that will change when I finish the document. My defaults are certainly not the factory defaults, and may well need changing for this piece.

benwiggy wrote: ↑29 Aug 2025, 08:06 Firstly, is the cross-staff really advantageous? Wouldn't this be clearer if it was all in one staff? Ab below isn't that low; neither is D above

It is much easier to read as written and traditional for this texture. (alla Schumann.) Faure wants the voice-leading to remain coherent to the eye. Ledger lines between the staves destroys this.

benwiggy wrote: ↑29 Aug 2025, 09:47 Secondly, similar phrases sometimes use centred beams and sometimes not. Why?

He uses centered beams when there is a melody present above the triplets that prevents the usual beaming style. The exceptions are where he seems to be showing the absence of the upper line. page 7 ms. 7-8 page 8 m 2 page 9 ms. 1-2 (your first example).

benwiggy wrote: ↑29 Aug 2025, 09:47 Finally, on the last beat: is the stem from the A to the C really necessary?

That is the only inconsistency that I have noted in a quick look through of the piece. No, it is not necessary, in my opinion. This kind of thing was often misunderstood by engravers. However, since we don't have the manuscript, I would myself leave it as is, since it is harmless.

benwiggy wrote: ↑29 Aug 2025, 09:47 There's also inconsistencies in the slurring. Most of the time, phrases like this have the slur flipped beneath (potentially looking like two tied notes).
But these three are done differently

I am not seeing major inconsistency in the slurring. Whenever possible, Faure places the slur on the note head side. But there are other factors that sometimes prevent this, such as the presence of a melody above a pair of two triplets. I did see a few missing slurs.

I certainly hope that no pianist mistakes these slurs for ties. The context spells it out, as does our normal rule regarding ties. But there is certainly no alternative unless one reworks the note distribution between the hands, an unappetizing prospect in my opinion.

Thanks, John. I'm not entirely sure how something like this prevents coherent voice leading; but I'm prepared to accept that I shouldn't change it.

John Ruggero wrote: ↑29 Aug 2025, 13:29 He only uses centered beams when there is a melody present above the triplets that prevents the usual beaming style.

I thought that: though there are a few exceptions to the rule, such as page 9, first bar -- arguably an 'introduction' to the melody that starts at the end of the next bar -- but then on the next system, he uses normal beaming in the first bar, which is a parallel instance to the system above. There are some others.

Anyway, I shan't alter it!

While you were writing that, I had edited my response above to include the exceptional center beaming cases you noted.

Page 9 m. 5-6. This is exceptional, but one notes that only the piano has the structural cadencing melody line at this point: E flat E flat D flat. The notation might indicate greater importance of the piano upper melody line, since in ms. 1-2 it is only doubling the soprano.

The voice leading becomes less coherent when the notes that belong to one voice move back and forth between the staves.

Right ho.

I'll be making the Dorico file available to the public, when it's finished, so you can see the whole thing.

benwiggy, what font are you using for the note heads and accidentals?