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Optical spacing
Posted: 10 Sep 2018, 11:30
by OCTO
When I look at this example, I feel that the second grace note is to much close to the main note.
Interestingly, the spacing (stem-to-stem) is correct, yet I can't remove my feeling that the spacing is improper.
How do you look at it?
This is done in Finale.

- graces.png (26.28 KiB) Viewed 15205 times
Re: Optical spacing
Posted: 10 Sep 2018, 11:46
by tisimst
Unquestionably, the second grace note and the main note look too close together, but it should only need a small re-allocation of spacing to give it enough air on both sides.
Re: Optical spacing
Posted: 10 Sep 2018, 11:46
by MalteM
LilyPond agrees:

- lily2.png (15.47 KiB) Viewed 15202 times

- lily1.png (14.04 KiB) Viewed 15202 times
Re: Optical spacing
Posted: 10 Sep 2018, 19:57
by OCTO
MalteM wrote: ↑10 Sep 2018, 11:46LilyPond agrees:
The same example, is it LP default?
So interesting, LP moves the note to make optical illusion of proper spacing.
How about other programs, particularly Dorico (default)?
Re: Optical spacing
Posted: 10 Sep 2018, 20:03
by MalteM
Yes, that’s LilyPond’s default spacing.
Re: Optical spacing
Posted: 10 Sep 2018, 23:41
by tisimst
Here are some surprising results...
Dorico 2.0:

- dorico-2-default-grace-optical-spacing.png (23.76 KiB) Viewed 15171 times
Sibelius 8.5:

- sibelius-8.5-default-grace-optical-spacing.png (55.26 KiB) Viewed 15171 times
Musescore 2.3:

- musescore-2.3-default-grace-optical-spacing.png (23.19 KiB) Viewed 15171 times
Re: Optical spacing
Posted: 11 Sep 2018, 06:37
by OCTO
In my opinion Dorico has the worst output here.
Re: Optical spacing
Posted: 11 Sep 2018, 11:15
by MalteM
I agree, but MuseScore isn’t really better. I’m a bit surprised that only Sibelius and LilyPond do optical spacing correctly here …
Re: Optical spacing
Posted: 11 Sep 2018, 12:07
by OCTO
MalteM wrote: ↑11 Sep 2018, 11:15
I agree, but MuseScore isn’t really better. I’m a bit surprised that only Sibelius and LilyPond do optical spacing correctly here …
Yes, but in my opinion Sibelius has its own spacing issue. To much space for grace notes, and also very strangely main notes. Just, I don't get it.
Re: Optical spacing
Posted: 11 Sep 2018, 15:29
by Schonbergian
Sibelius chokes and dies as soon as you throw anything into the spacing engine other than notes. Lyrics, in particular, never fail to screw up the look of the page. Amazing that it hasn't been improved after all this time.