NOTATIO

lets say there's a passage, very simple, it repeats twice.
violin section.
divided in two. very simple rhythm, all quarter notes.
they START on a single unison note, then immediately divide to different notes (let's say 6ths).
a period of rest, then the short passage repeats, starting on a unison note, then divided.

the divided notes share stems, considering the simplicity of the passage.

the question:

Should the single unison note that starts the passage have two stems?
Should only the first unison note of the repetition of the pattern have split stems?

Or would, for clarity's sake, it be simpler to make both divided parts into their own voice? (ie: all individual stems)

N.B. the example image I posted has two versions. it's not the same material repeated between 1st and 2nd violins.

I think the second version is unequivocally clear, the first possibly a little less so.

I'd add to that, that in my experience when there are two notes at once in a string section part, the immediate reaction is to divide it anyway, unless there is a clear direction non div..

and sadly, in my experience, oftentimes even when there IS a non-div. marking, musicians will divide it!

I doubt the first version would cause any real discussion during rehearsals, but I'm trying to also get the most attractive and unambiguous engraving as possible (that's just a quick example, however, and not what is actually in the score... where it's complicated by articulations and slurs)

The most important is clarity and a notation that is not negotiable.

I tend to agree with OCTO, as a violinist, my "spinal reflex" would be to start divisi on the second quater note in the upper case. In the second case, there is no doubt, it starts with the first quater note

swetom2011 wrote: ↑17 Feb 2023, 05:52 I tend to agree with OCTO, as a violinist, my "spinal reflex" would be to start divisi on the second quater note in the upper case. In the second case, there is no doubt, it starts with the first quater note

I am a former orchestral musician too, the Second Violin principal.

What s surprise, I'm the second violin principal as well. It's called "Stimmführer" in German.

ok, a question for you 2nd desk violinists

let's say that the passage in question doesn't start on that single note. it's immediately preceded by a musical line with no divisi. that initial D is basically the last note of non-divisi playing for the strings.

would you still rather see that unison D with two stems and the div. indication?

I can understand a passage that just starts point blank, with a single note, then suddenly into a divisi, there being a question of "is that first note ONLY 1st desks?"

I have such cases in a piece I'm currently engraving, see below.
It starts with a divisi but for one single quarter note, both play the same. In this case, I put a2 above to remove any doubt. In fact I didn't do it, it's default in Lilypond.

A stave later where I have Trombone 3 and Tuba on one stave, I put who is actually playing. In the case above, the Posaune III.

By the way, in our orchestra, the divisi parts are played such that the right player plays the upper part, the left side the lower. If it's just the first deck who plays, it's the same but I then put a note that this is solo for 2 instruments. It makes not difference for wood and brass because they are more or less soloist each of them anyway but it makes a difference for the strings.

hmmm, I'd rather have two stems than the "a2" text if I were facing the example you supplied above.
although I understand that the rest of the passage (both preceding and following) has the two instruments sharing a stem, so suddenly having split stems I guess could be ... problematic? (at least, graphically. I don't think a conductor would have trouble understanding the idea.)