NOTATIO

MichelRE wrote: ↑11 Mar 2023, 14:24 For example, someone argued that a straight line gliss was different from a wavy line gliss in actual performance. This is pure horse-pucky. They are simply different notation conventions from different periods in time for the exact same performance technique.

They are often different for wind players though. It's tricky because sometimes they will be played the same, and sometimes not. For example, all the half step straight line glisses in Ryo Noda's Maï could never be notated with a wavy gliss. The player will make these as smooth as possible using a combination of voicing, lip pressure, and slowly opening/closing keys. (1/2 step can basically be done with lip pressure alone too.) A wavy gliss wouldn't make any sense here, and the player would probably end up adding pitches that aren't intended:



For longer glisses they will much more likely be played more or less the same, but with subtle differences. For wavy I would just play chromatically and not worry about smearing from note to note, and straight I would use voicing and lip pressure to make the note transitions as smooth as possible. I'm sure I must have some "advanced technique" saxophone or flute book somewhere that goes into this so I'll look around.

technically, those aren't "glissandi". they are pitch bends.

I forgot there was a notational key in the back. The composer himself calls it "portamento."

FWIW (maybe not much) for the trombone part of a piece I wrote long ago (begun and abandoned in 1962 and then returned to and completed in 1968) I used the wavy line for a glissando lasting the whole value of the first note and the straight line for a quick glissando at the end of the first note. Here is a link to a 1980 recording of Part 2 of that piece https://composers-uk.com/davidward/fullmoon2.mp3 from a 1980 performance, although if I remember accurately nearly all the trombone glissandi are in Part 1. Anyway, my brief note of explanation about my notation was easily and immediately understood and followed by the player.

Nowadays, I notate such glissandi a little differently.

I only remember seeing the wavy line rarely and only for longish glissandi in piano music. Most examples in the standard literature are written out or indicated with a straight line, both accompanied by "glissando" or "gliss." According to E. Gould, who shows almost all of her examples with straight lines, the wavy line may be a thing of the past. Bartok, a well-known employer of glissandi, used the straight line. At least that is what I see in his string quartets.

But if the wavy line is going begging, that leaves it open to for specialized assignment in wind playing and/or jazz as mentioned by FredGUnn.

John Ruggero wrote: ↑16 Mar 2023, 20:00 … … … According to E. Gould, who shows almost all of her examples with straight lines, the wavy line may be a thing of the past.… … …

This is from a much more recent piece of mine, trombone gliss indicated by a wavy line while the progress of wa-wa effects with Harmon mute is shown by a straight line (plus arrow). This is clear, easily understood and needs no further explanation.

David, I think that's a good illustration of the "fluid" use of these two indications to meet various requirements.

although in David's last example I wouldn't even think of calling that a "glissando". it's a line with an arrow, and it doesn't connect noteheads. It's obviously pertaining to a particular playing technique.

You're right. I thought at first that David was using the wavy line as a substitute for a straight line, but looking back, I think he said the he always uses a wavy line for such cases. The wavy line may be prevalent in trombone playing. Is that the case, David?

John Ruggero wrote: ↑17 Mar 2023, 21:14 … … …  The wavy line may be prevalent in trombone playing. Is that the case, David?

Not necessarily, but it is readily understood. The reason I usually choose to use it is in case of just this situation. The straight line (in this case with arrow) is for the the progressive covering of the tube on the Harmon mute, the wavy line is for the simultaneous glissando. Having too different styles of line for two different but simultaneous effects helps clarity things (or so I like to believe).

This combined glissando and Harmon effect can be heard several times in the short (6 min) scherzo from my second cello concerto https://composers-uk.com/davidward/ward-vcl-conc2-2.mp3 The cellist is Rohan de Saram http://rohandesaram.co.uk/ (and the orchestra trombonist is Emily White). Recorded in 2003.