Scordatura conventions

[MalteM]

I have a question about scordatura for string instruments.
My current knowledge comes from being an experienced cello player who has gone through Bach V, Kodaly solo sonata, and Dutilleux Trois Strophes.
In all those cases, the notation is "transposed", that is "show me what to play and it will work".

[…]

Trying to play the Devil's Advocate, I will concede that, if you have perfect pitch and read something that sounds different, it will annoy you. But that's what clef reading is for, right?

I play the cello (though probably less experienced than you, my “main” instrument is the piano) and have perfect pitch. I tried Bach V from both semi-transposed and “in C” notation and for me it’s a lot easier to use the original semi-transposed version. Of course it was strange at the beginning but soon it felt very natural because I knew how it would sound and the sheet music just helped my fingers to correctly produce that sound (like a tablature), especially for double and triple stops. Kodaly then was no problem to read either (too difficult to play, but that was not a notation or reading problem )

Some years later I started to learn the (B♭) clarinet and after a week or so my perfect pitch had adapted to hearing a “clarinet G” as G and not as F.

Edit: I don’t think there really is a need for a permanent ossia staff with “in C” notation. Maybe in cases where it’s ambiguous on which strings to play but even there string indications could be sufficient. IIUC, Gould suggests the permanent ossia staff only for full scores which are used for performing (full scores for conducting only “in C”).

[NeeraWM]

Yes, that's the trick and I agree with Gould on this.
The balance is to be found in how many strings are "scordate": with 1-2 strings (Kodaly Op 8), just write transposed, with 3+ (no relevant example known to me apart from Biber, who wrote transposed), maybe write sounding pitches and a dense forest of fingering and position suggestions.

Like my cello teacher used to say: "sometimes all fingerings are bad"!

[NeeraWM]

I play the cello (though probably less experienced than you, my “main” instrument is the piano) and have perfect pitch. I tried Bach V from both semi-transposed and “in C” notation and for me it’s a lot easier to use the original semi-transposed version. Of course it was strange at the beginning but soon it felt very natural because I knew how it would sound and the sheet music just helped my fingers to correctly produce that sound (like a tablature), especially for double and triple stops. Kodaly then was no problem to read either (too difficult to play, but that was not a notation or reading problem )

Some years later I started to learn the (B♭) clarinet and after a week or so my perfect pitch had adapted to hearing a “clarinet G” as G and not as F.

Edit: I don’t think there really is a need for a permanent ossia staff with “in C” notation. Maybe in cases where it’s ambiguous on which strings to play but even there string indications could be sufficient. IIUC, Gould suggests the permanent ossia staff only for full scores which are used for performing (full scores for conducting only “in C”).

Thank you for your insight, MalteM.
I agree with you and, with all due diplomacy, I believe composers writing in C when there is a transposition going on are erring on the side of laziness.
Now that I'm designing the score of an opera whose composer sent me the score in C already typeset in Sibelius, I'm finding plenty of E-sharps and B-sharps in the clarinet parts, something that would have not happened if the score had been written transposed from the start.

I am no composer, but when I did my Bachelor in Switzerland, the solfege examination required us to transpose at sight a piece on our instruments up to an augmented 4th above and below! French theory is just unbeatable! :-D
That's to say that, if I did it and I'm not a composer, they also should be able to do that!

[John Ruggero]

Sorry, I misread the Gould, MalteM. As you said, she recommends a cue staff above for scores, and suggests placing the alternate "sounding" version on the opposite page for parts. That would also have implications for page turns, and perhaps worse ones, so I think a cue staff is a better option for all cases. I'm glad that there is no scordatura for keyboard except pianos that are a half a tone low, which drive me up the wall before I can eventually adjust. Fortunately, my brother is a piano technician, so I don't have to worry about that under normal circumstances.

[NeeraWM]

Opposite page?
Is there a real example of this anywhere in the literature?

[Fred G. Unn]

More and more composers ask me to engrave their scores "in C".

All of the composers I've worked with that came up in the pre-computer era have always written transposed scores. This is at least partially due to the fact that there was a 50% premium (under the NYC Local 802 contract anyway) to have hand copyists do the transposition, so it was much more expensive to provide concert scores. Personally, when conducting I want to see what the players see, so always prefer transposed scores. As you point out, transposed scores are also great for proofreading horizontally and avoiding awkward enharmonics for the the players.

Some of the current trend for concert scores I think is driven by the film and commercial side of things. If you have a full orchestra in a modern recording studio sightreading music that was just copied the night before, you're spending thousands of dollars an hour. Any mistake by the composer or copyist can literally be quite expensive. If the conductor can identify the error in 30 seconds in a concert score, vs. a few minutes in a transposed score, there's a very significant cost savings in providing a concert score.

we did Bernstein's Mass among many other works while I was there.

I've played that! It was performed the Aspen Music Festival in 1993 or 94 and I played an alto sax part. (I can't remember if the instrumentation called for doublers or individual players, but I remember not having a lot to play, LOL)

[NeeraWM]

Every time that I read about something in our business being regulated, I start dreaming of being in a nice world!
When I propose a contract, or a written agreement, to any of my customers (company or independent composers), they all get on the defensive...
But I digress...

[John Ruggero]

Good old Local 802 AFM!

Bernstein's Mass is quite an extravaganza with various bands and choral groups on and off the stage. I guess you might have been playing alto sax in the stage orchestra. I just checked the instrumentation at Boosey.

[JJP]

All of the composers I've worked with that came up in the pre-computer era have always written transposed scores. This is at least partially due to the fact that there was a 50% premium (under the NYC Local 802 contract anyway) to have hand copyists do the transposition, so it was much more expensive to provide concert scores.

This is still the case in AFM agreements nationwide. I’m happy for that.

Your comments about transposed scores are exactly right about studio time. However, I will add that with the emergence of the DAW, many upcoming commercial composers are untrained and unable to read transpositions. Some are barely able to read a concert score.

Tech is not all bad, though. I know more than one composer or orchestrator who prefer to write in concert but conduct from a transposed score. Computers make this a reality for them. They will write in concert, then transpose the score and do the final cleanup of enhamonics.