To condense or not to condense, that is the question...

[MichelRE]

Whether 'tis nobler... BAH!

The question is brought on by my looking at various scores.

I've noticed quite a few large orchestral scores where the publisher did not hide empty staves, so each page has an identical layout, even if only 3 instruments are playing rather than 103.

And then other scores where each page is quite different, with pretty much the strings being the only constant layout of a minimum of 5 staves.
(and yet other scores where even non-playing string parts are excised from the layout!)

I'm wondering if there's any rhyme or reason to this.

Do some conductors prefer a VERY easy to read/follow score where the eye is drawn immediately to wherever on the static page there are notes?
Do other conductors prefer to see only staves that contain music?

Speaking for my own scores, thus far the only scores where I've not removed empty staves have been string-orchestra scores (and in my violin concerto, which has a string orchestra accompaniment, the layout DOES change on certain pages with 1st and 2nd violins, sometimes violas and celli in divisi on multiple staves, and here and there hiding the soloist's staff since they aren't playing for multiple systems.)

My orchestra scores have all been condensed down to as efficient a reduction as possible, with my only keeping a few empty staves where one page might contain music in that staff, then one page without, then the next with music again... (I felt consistency was more important there.)

Is this, thus, just a question of editorial preference, or even preference on the part of the composer?

[hautbois baryton]

I have asked about this, and without exception conductors have told me they prefer a static layout, particularly in scores with fast page turns.

[Fred G. Unn]

I think I've been asked to do just about every combination or this before at one time or another, but my default for orchestral conductor's scores is condense by "like" instruments as needed, and if an instrument is playing at all in a movement, then their rests will be shown on every system of that movement. Obviously rests can be condensed too, so if both clarinets are resting for that system, those can be condensed on to one staff, but will still be shown as long as they are playing elsewhere in that movement. With condensing changes and divisi, the layout doesn't remain completely static, but it's close enough that the conductor doesn't have to hunt for staves like with French scoring. An exception can possibly be made with an extended cadneza for a solo instrument, where the resting instruments can be removed as there's only one instrument to follow.

I feel that instruments that are tacet for the entire movement don't need to be shown at all in that movement, although some will say the entire ensemble needs to be shown on the first page of the score. Personally, if they aren't playing in the first movement, I find listing them in the Instrumentation page is enough, but some might disagree. French scoring is fine for study scores of course, and for class handouts, but conductors typically hate to conduct from them. Rehearsal time for new works is always at a premium and they are often under-rehearsed with the assumption the audience doesn't know the piece anyway, so showing the staves helps the conductor keep their place with a minimum of rehearsal time wasted.

Conductor scores for jazz ensemble are rarely ever condensed and almost never use French scoring. A few Thad Jones scores published by Kendor Music have the brass partially condensed, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head.

[MichelRE]

Hmmm, this gives me pause for thought.
I guess I will be taking some time to reevaluate the appearance of my scores.

Out of curiosity, would you remove the staves for Piccolo when it isn't playing and that performer is back on 2nd flute? (back and forth within the same movement, for example)

[Fred G. Unn]

Out of curiosity, would you remove the staves for Piccolo when it isn't playing and that performer is back on 2nd flute? (back and forth within the same movement, for example)

For me, it's all about helping orient the conductor to facilitate rehearsal time. If Clarinets and Bassoons are both playing in a movement, the Bassoons will always be located under the Clarinets in the score, even if the Clarinets are resting. The Bassoon won't be under the Oboes and the Clarinet staff removed when resting, as keeping the instruments helps the conductor stay oriented in the score. If Flute 2 switches to Picc, I leave the Picc at the Flute 2 location in the score so the conductor remains oriented with the ensemble. The conductor knows exactly which player to look at to give cues or feedback. There's never an awkward, "which one of you is playing Picc?" question that could occur if the Picc is placed at the top of the score. I'm pretty sure I remember a thread where you said you always want to see it at the top, so we probably disagree on this. (I do agree that Dorico should allow for that option though!)

I admittedly don't have much orchestral conducting experience myself, but I conduct jazz orchestra all the time, and when the reeds are doubling I find it far more useful to know which player is playing what instrument so I know where to cue or give feedback than to have them simply arranged high to low in the performance score. Back to your question, with this method obviously the Piccolo staff only exists then when it is being played, so there's not really any issue of whether to remove it or not. A staff for that player, whether condensed with Flute 1 or not, Picc or Flute, will remain for the entire movement if they are playing at all in that movement.

[benwiggy]

Is this, thus, just a question of editorial preference, or even preference on the part of the composer?

I suspect that in most cases, the publisher will be led by the desire to save paper, and thus cost, rather than any more noble editorial sentiments.

The same things is frequently seen in choral scores, where the disposition of staves will change wildly, and needlessly, just to save an extra sheet.

[David Ward]

It must surely depend on the nature, character and scale of the score. I've just been (minor) editing a score of mine from 2012 of a 90 minute piece that plays continuously (although a break is possible if preferred). With most empty staves removed it is on 315 pages of full score, but there are 410 systems. An extra 95 pages might make coil binding less effective.

What would the score of Elektra look like if blank staves were not removed? It's already 370 pages with no break. The few most heavily scored pages are a little awkward to read because of the enormous number of staves. Would one want the whole score to be like that? On the other hand, some editions of Mozart symphonies don't take out blank staves, which seems sensible enough.

That apart, I don't much like seeing a plethora of whole bar rests in the middle of a score, and find it easier to read if such staves are removed.

[MichelRE]

it IS a complex question and one with so many perfectly valid reasonings that end up being completely contradictory.

Just looking at my first two symphonies, NOT condensing (ie: leaving every single blank staff throughout) will make the difference between a $200 full score and a $300 one. Sadly, pecuniary considerations are part of the equation in my circumstances.

[OCTO]

A very long time ago when the paper account was the issue, the scores tended to be extremely condensed.  Today, we don't have that problem (except having issue with the environment) so the scores, and particularly the scores of contemporary composers, are printed without collapsing the staves. Even some composers, using Finale 2001, have scores where all horns are separated. It takes a lot of space vertically, and the most of these scores are too thin to be leigible.

[MichelRE]

in most of my scores I've tried to avoid the constant appearance and disappearance of staves when instruments play or don't play on one single page.

for example, if on one page the cor anglais has no material, but does on the previous and subsequent pages, then I'll simply include the C.A. staff, with rests.

In other words, if there are woodwinds, then all the woodwind staves are present, whether they are playing or not... with a FEW very rare exceptions.

In my first symphony, for example, the 2nd movement starts with page after page of only solo flute with string accompaniment.
So there are two score pages, with three systems per page, of only flute and strings.

one piece of mine, my 2nd symphony, has SO much going on in the last pages that I've had to make the staff size a tiny bit smaller juat to fit all the material on the already large paper size.