First system indents

[MichelRE]

So!
I'm curious, since I couldn't find (with a cursory search) any reference to it in Gould, is there some preferred industry standard for just how much the first system of a piece indents?

In my particular case I'm talking about art songs for voice and piano.

I was thinking of not having the staff labels "voice" and "piano" present at all, since "for voice and piano" is in the actual title of the piece.

[hautbois baryton]

I always do a half inch in the parts for the first stave/system.

[MichelRE]

ah, yes, but this doesn't have parts. everyone reads from a score (art songs, voice and piano)

which is why I was asking.

it seems some editions have "voice" and "piano" staff names, while others forego them completely.

without a staff name, too large an indent doesn't quite look right.
but then, neither does too small an indent.

[Harpsichordmaker]

A rule of thumb in typography is the first line of the paragraph should have an indent so the white space is a perfect square. Maybe is there something like that for music as well?
(Maybe not, after all in typography the first line should not be indented, while for music the first system is the only one to be indented.)

[MichelRE]

ouf, depending on the score, that indent could be MASSIVE if there are a lot of instruments!
if one had to make it a perfect square basically no orchestral score would have a first page! LOL

[Felipe Copaja]

I use 6 staff spaces for the first system.

[Harpsichordmaker]

ouf, depending on the score, that indent could be MASSIVE if there are a lot of instruments!
if one had to make it a perfect square basically no orchestral score would have a first page! LOL

Of course. Still, there may be some hidden proportions, after all we are able to see when an indent is too wide or too small. Probably it also depends on if there are instrument names before staves.

[MichelRE]

So far, as concerns instrument names, I find that the indent should match the longest instrument name to look ideal.
However, I also tend to split instrument names onto two separate lines if the single line result is too ridiculously long.
For example:
Clarinette basse en Si

would most of the time look better as:
Clarinette basse
en Si

(obviously, correctly right justified)

[David Ward]

As it happens, since 2020 and Covid lockdown, I've written about 80 minutes worth of art songs, long and short, one voice and two, all with piano. The screenshot shows my invariable indent. Later systems have no stave names if solo and abbreviated voice names if duet (but nothing for the piano). This is on A4.

[MichelRE]

@David Ward I'd like to have seen a bit of the 2nd system to get a better visual representation of the proportion of the indent to the staves.

(and a quick question, there's a C in the piano left hand between two C# - 3rd measure beat 1 - but with no cautionary... is it a missing cautionary or a missing #? that's one thing I like about Dorico: it would insert a cautionary by itself, or repeat the accidental if it's necessary. You have to actively remove any unwanted cautionary accidentals, unlike in Finale where you have to look for the cautionaries and manually insert them.)

I'll include the same size of snippet from my score, for what I decided to go with:

NB: I know that "poems by Paul Hansford is in the title AND at the top left of where the song starts, but I'm trying to keep the same sort of page layout for the start of every song. I AM debating having the subtitle in French rather than English (sept mélodies pour voix et piano sur des poésies de Paul Hansford) just for my inconsistency's consistency. There are times where it's just so difficult wanting to use English or include English in a milieu that almost frowns on its use, and one does at times have to tip-toe carefully through political minefields if one wishes to remain in the good graces of the money gods.