Distance from the left bar line

[John Ruggero]

Should the first note or rest in a measure be at fixed distance from the left barline?

Consistency is a desirable quality in music engraving and is so easy to accomplish with software. But when does consistency become barren and mechanical?

As a hand copyist, I placed the first note of each measure solely on the basis of clarity and balance, which varied from measure to measure. I see the same in much plate engraving.

One well-discussed and now accepted example of this practice concerns single notes that occupy whole measures. Such measures are often contracted and the single notes centered, or at least indented, something that neither Finale and Dorico does automatically, unfortunately.

But this is not the only such situation. In the following examples from the first edition, Breitkopf Complete Works, and older plate-engraved Henle editions of Brahms Piano Sonata no. 3, I see the space after a left bar line being influenced by the density of the music, both within the measure and in that system, even when there is more than one note in the measure. I think that this gives a natural, well balanced appearance to the music.

First Edition.png (625.41 KiB) Viewed 5302 times

B and H.png (421.77 KiB) Viewed 5302 times

Old Henle.png (679.73 KiB) Viewed 5302 times

In the following example from the current (computer-engraved?) Henle edition, I see a fixed distance from the left barline imposed on every measure. I find this machine-like and unappealing:

New Henle.png (473.73 KiB) Viewed 5302 times

What do other Notat.io members think?

[David Ward]

This is not something I've thought about, but I suspect you may be right and that over consistency in this matter can look rather mechanical.

Interesting placement of bass clefs in the first example: was this a normal convention at the time?

FWIW Out of idle curiosity, and with no idea what I might find, I've just checked a 950 bar manuscript of mine from 1982 (a BBC commission) for six singers and fifteen instrumentalists. I consistently wrote as close to the left barline as was practical, but because it is manuscript, it looks natural (plus there are inevitably a few exceptions). Looking at a later (completed in the year 2000) and larger manuscript score of mine, there seems to be far greater variety in the amount of space after the left barline. The possible relevance of these observations is that in neither case would I have given this conscious thought: it just happened.

[Fred G. Unn]

To me it looks like they are a fixed distance but different engravers / publishers took differing approaches. In your first example, it looks to me like the engraver aligned the stems at a fixed distance but allowed the accidentals to be left of the alignment point.

1.png (532.07 KiB) Viewed 5250 times

The second example looks like the first musical element is aligned, whether it's a dynamic, flat, or double flat. The ottava line is not included in that judgement apparently.

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The third example is like the first where the stems align and accidentals may go to the left.

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I imagine some sort of T-square would allow for easy alignment of these.

[John Ruggero]

Thanks, Fred G. Unn. I wasn't talking about the distance to the key signatures, but the varied distances to the left bar lines.

Here are more examples from different areas of the Henle publication shown above so that the different spacing is more apparent. Note that the less dense the music, the larger the spaces after the left bar lines. The second example is very tightly packed against the left bar lines:

Henle Distance to left bar lines.png (655.54 KiB) Viewed 5234 times

Henle 2.png (205.27 KiB) Viewed 5234 times

Henle 3.png (569.62 KiB) Viewed 5234 times

[John Ruggero]

Thanks, David. I have seen other examples of that clef placement and even posted about it. In this case, I think it is being done as a space-saving device, because it is not consistent.

[Fred G. Unn]

Thanks, Fred G. Unn. I wasn't talking about the distance to the key signatures, but the varied distances to the left bar lines.

Oh, whoops! I misinterpreted that to be the varied distances from the left systemic barline.

[John Ruggero]

Since the distance of the first note or rest from the left systemic bar line varies depending on the key signature, presence of a time signature etc., perhaps it's better to consider the gap between the first note and the last fixed item, like a clef, key signature or time signature. I am also seeing that gap varying a bit within a single publication, even though the plate engravers do seem to be attempting to line up the first notes on each system of a page when possible. But that is a different topic!

[John Ruggero]

Examples of the effect of distance from the left bar lines in a spacious layout.

The first example is set to 1 space, the Finale default. The second to 1.25 spaces, and the third to 1.5 spaces, the fourth to 1.75, and the fifth to 2 spaces. What spacing do you prefer?

1 space.png (135.8 KiB) Viewed 5160 times

1.25 spaces.png (50.69 KiB) Viewed 5160 times

1.5 spaces.png (136.79 KiB) Viewed 5160 times

1.75 spaces.png (135.54 KiB) Viewed 5160 times

2 spaces.png (51.06 KiB) Viewed 5160 times

[hautbois baryton]

I definitely prefer the 1.25 space example.

[John Ruggero]

Thanks, hautbois baryton. 1.25 is a nice compromise.

Here is another interesting example from the same movement of Beethoven's op. 27 no. 2. This from the old plate-engraved Schirmer edition (von Bülow). Note the varying distances from the left bar line, again responding to the density of each systems:

Schirmer.png (401.68 KiB) Viewed 5134 times

This is something that could be a software option, but as far as I know, is not at present.