Advice on Horn clefs

[benwiggy]

As I understand it (and that's not saying much), there is an "old style" and a "modern style" of transposition in Horn parts when using the Bass clef: the old style being a fourth lower than sounding pitch; and the modern style being a fifth higher than sounding.

I'm producing an edition of an orchestral work by Schumann. The original 19th-century edition, unsurprisingly, uses the old style. But I'm preparing a modern edition for modern players. They will surely be able to cope either way; but I want to avoid wrong notes on the first reading.

Gould seems to suggest that the modern style is preferred, but also advises stating which way round it is. Hopefully there's a shorthand for "Notes in the bass clef sound a fifth lower than written."

Any thoughts?

[David Ward]

If there's space, you might put, in brackets, 5 followed by a down arrow over your first use of the bass clef. It would probably be obvious either way without such an indication, but if you want to make sure…

[Magnus Johansson]

If there's space, you might put, in brackets, 5 followed by a down arrow over your first use of the bass clef. It would probably be obvious either way without such an indication, but if you want to make sure…

If clarification is needed I would use a 5 below the bass clef just like I use an 8 below the bass clef for contrabass.

[RMK]

I would keep it as is, especially if the part is an a key other than F (E-flat Horn, etc.). Any decent Horn player will know what to play.

Non-standard clefs will only waste rehearsal time with questions.

[benwiggy]

Any decent Horn player will know what to play. Non-standard clefs will only waste rehearsal time with questions.

There will never be any ambiguity, and no discussion about which transposition is intended....?

[RMK]

No, I don't believe so, unless the notes in bass clef are quite high, say, around C4.

If you wanted to be entirely safe, you could put a note in the part: "Passages in bass clef are Old Style".

[jrethorst]

Classical guitar is played an octave lower than written, and some (mostly older) scores indicate that with a small numeral 8 at the bottom of the treble clef. Dorico's symbol editor could do something like that for the bass clef, but that might simply confuse people who haven't seen it before, while classical guitarists have mostly seen the 8vb treble clef before.

[Magister Tekton]

Unless your editing for academic purposes, best to stay in modern style and not confuse anyone. You could salve your conscience by including an incipit illustrating the first measure or two in old style.

[Wescott]

A new edition of an old score ought to use the modern approach, but since it's a 19th century piece just put a note at the beginning that says all bass clef notes are written a fifth higher than the sounding pitch.

[OCTO]

If there's space, you might put, in brackets, 5 followed by a down arrow over your first use of the bass clef. It would probably be obvious either way without such an indication, but if you want to make sure…

If clarification is needed I would use a 5 below the bass clef just like I use an 8 below the bass clef for contrabass.

You mean, 5 ABOVE the bass clef?