Vocalise and Vocable use and notation

[LSL2026]

I wasn't sure where to post this.

Any vocalists or vocal experts here?

This is more of a composition question but if you can link me to notated examples it would be helpful.

I haven’t written for voice for a while, and I’m thinking about doing some “textless” pieces - maybe a set of 3 or so short pieces for voice and…something.

I kind of wanted to do a Humming piece, but I have no idea how loud humming can be. Can it compete with a piano? Piano with closed lid? Una corda, marked ppp????

As a guitarist, it would probably work well for Classical Guitar and Humming…

Maybe Marimba, which can do lovely soft rolls and things.

Most other modern instruments tend to be “soloistically loud” and I don't want the vocal to have to be mic’d.

The other pieces might be just a vocalise on any syllable, or a vowel sound or intermixing of vowel sounds.

I’m not sure I want to do vocables with consonants or “oo” sounds (poo poo, cuckoo, tutu, goo goo, etc.). They can invoke giggles from the peanut gallery (a solid member of myself!)

Any thoughts and suggestions on technique appreciated, and suggestions for listening and scores for seeing how it’s handled are welcome.

[David Ward]

From the ppp to the mp of the voice for whom you are writing might usually work best.

Quite loud closed mouth humming is often possible, but could sometimes be considered potentially damaging for the voice, so it would probably be safest to keep to these dynamics. If the piano writing is reasonably transparent and doesn't involve heavy pedalling, good balance should be practical at the same marked dynamic.

[benwiggy]

I
I kind of wanted to do a Humming piece, but I have no idea how loud humming can be. Can it compete with a piano? Piano with closed lid? Una corda, marked ppp????

It may depend on the specific resonance of the singer.

I've certainly sung choral pieces where the conductor has instructed that humming be sung with a slightly open mouth, for balance.

[dircknagy]

... I have no idea how loud humming can be...

Good heavens, just try it. Its not difficult; most people can do it.

... suggestions for listening and scores for seeing how it’s handled are welcome.

I'm a little surprised, because I thought you said you were a music professor at a university...? There are thousands of examples available.

I wasn't sure where to post this.
This is more of a composition question but if you can link me to notated examples it would be helpful.

Long discussions are sometimes fun, but i dont think this is the place to post this kind of question. The Redddit forums would probably be better.

Of course, I'm not the moderator, but I visit this forum when i have notation questions for people with real expertise in the field. This sort of discussion just clutters things up and makes finding real information more difficult.

[LSL2026]

From the ppp to the mp of the voice for whom you are writing might usually work best.

Quite loud closed mouth humming is often possible, but could sometimes be considered potentially damaging for the voice, so it would probably be safest to keep to these dynamics. If the piano writing is reasonably transparent and doesn't involve heavy pedalling, good balance should be practical at the same marked dynamic.

Thanks David!

[LSL2026]

I've certainly sung choral pieces where the conductor has instructed that humming be sung with a slightly open mouth, for balance.

Ahh - see this is the kind of technical detail that helps. Thanks!

[OCTO]

- Humming with semi opened mouth like "ɐ"
- Alternate voice solo, piano solo
- Use prepared piano, pizz. inside
- Use piano outside of the vocal range
- Enforce the voice line with the same line in the piano
- Ask the pianist to hum the same line as the Voice (in octave or unison)
- etc etc.

[Schonbergian]

I've never seen humming used "soloistically", only as a very soft or accompanimental effect with a choir. It might be possible or extant in the literature, but I can't imagine it being that effective.

/u/ or /ə/ are the "safest" vowels for a vocalise, I think. /a/ can be riskier. The solo vocalises that I know tend not to specify the vowel and presumably leave it up to the singer or teacher. In general it's harder to write an idiomatic vocalise than a texted work because the nature of a text forces a composer to engage with the voice in a more natural, direct way.

[LSL2026]

- Humming with semi opened mouth like "ɐ"
- Alternate voice solo, piano solo
- Use prepared piano, pizz. inside
- Use piano outside of the vocal range
- Enforce the voice line with the same line in the piano
- Ask the pianist to hum the same line as the Voice (in octave or unison)
- etc etc.

These are all great suggestions, thanks!

[LSL2026]

I've never seen humming used "soloistically", only as a very soft or accompanimental effect with a choir. It might be possible or extant in the literature, but I can't imagine it being that effective.

Thanks - this is the kind of feedback I was looking for. I think the reality is, it’s not practical unless the accompany instrument is either very quiet, can play very quietly, or can otherwise stay out of the way.

The solo vocalises that I know tend not to specify the vowel and presumably leave it up to the singer or teacher

Yes, I’ve kind of gathered this “let the performer do what they need”. I totally wouldn’t have any problem with the vocalist switching vowels.