5/4 grouping

[OCTO]

What is your 5/4 grouping rule?
Let us assume that there is no a specific strong beat except the first one.

3+2, 2+3, or 4+1?

[David Ward]

I think 3+2 is probably the most standard (although the lopsided Waltz in Tchaikovsky's 6th symphony is 2+3). I'd choose 3+2 if there were no specific reason to do otherwise.

[OCTO]

The question now is what happens if we have one whole and one quarter note (as a phrase):
?

Should it be written 4 + 1 or (3+1) + 1?

Screenshot 2026-09-14 at 01.41.33.png (27.08 KiB) Viewed 155 times

[Magnus Johansson]

Hello! In most music in 5/4 there is a secondary and less strong beat on beat 3 or 4 making the grouping 2+3 or 3+2. Can this be heard in the music in question?

[OCTO]

Unfortunately it can't, it would be of course easier.  Therefore my question.

[Magnus Johansson]

Unfortunately it can't, it would be of course easier.  Therefore my question.

Then I think it is OK using simple note values avoiding unnecessary dots and ties although followed by in the same bar looks a little strange.

[John Ruggero]

I find this a even more interesting question than on first appearance. Of course, if the music is to be felt in an undivided 5, then seems self-evident. Yet is there really a practical difference between this and writing tie , which I think is closer to an undivided 5 in feeling than tie ? And it would be more familiar to the player.

[OCTO]

The question is even more problematic if we take in account different values combined.
What about a melody that sounds as: + +
Or: + + ?

[Magnus Johansson]

The question is even more problematic if we take in account different values combined.
What about a melody that sounds as: + +
Or: + + ?

I think the second example should be:

Screenshot_20260914_191511.png (1.74 KiB) Viewed 88 times

[Mr_Incognito]

If you notate it + or some conductors will complain.

If you do it by the rules of grammar some will complain too.

If you throw in some tuplet, this will make it harder to complain