12/8 Question

[Fred G. Unn]

I would in fact place staccato dots also on the 8th notes, to remind myself that they are all played equally short. However, I would hesitate to use this notation if it was intended for other people to read: there would always be someone who'd argue that eighths and quarters with staccato dots should be played differently.

I might be that someone, LOL! Depending on context, I might think that it was done deliberately to differentiate the eighths from the quarters, whereas I would probably play the staccato quarters and non-staccato eighths the same.

[erelievonen]

And I might be someone who played non-staccato eighths and staccato quarters differently... (i.e. the 8th longer, or even legato, and the quarter short.)
But that'd depend very much on the context. If the tempo was quick enough, there would be no practical difference.

[OCTO]

Here's an example in 12/8. The first measure shows all rests, the second consolidates leading rests, the third consolidates all within a beat, and the fourth presents another way of notating which may not be acceptable in a given situation. Which do you prefer and why? Which is "correct" in your opinion?

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As a performer I would go for the second option. The first and the third is unclear for me. The first unreadable. The last is acoustically similar but notationally not the same. It could be edited only by composer.

I think that this problem comes from the 3/4 t.s. In the slow tempo 6/8 can be conducted as 6/beats (not compound!).
However the 3/8 t.s. is not compound and so the theory is applied from the 3/4 t.s.

I understand this like that: binary t.s.s have accented and unaccented beats. But 3/4 has accented : not accented : half accented beats. The third has more power than the second one.

Therefore the rests can cover from 1-2 but not 2-3.
This is also applied to the other t.s. - if a rest starts from an even beat number (2, 4...) it must be for itself. If it starts from an odd beat number (1, 3...) it can cover the following rests.

The Boosey instrutions are clear about exceptions, especially with the dotted eighth.

[OCTO]

If I were performing this, I'd probabrhythp out the pencil and draw hashmarks above the beats.

N.

Agree. Marking the beats is the common practice used on daily basis even with Beethoven.

Particularly if you play ....viola. (no melody, just ostinato rhythm) :-D

[Knut]

Aren't cases like this what Half stems/stemlets are for?

[erelievonen]

That's exactly what I was advocating with my 5th option.

[N. Grossingink]

That sort of points out the problem here though. If the goal of notation is to make the music as clear as possible and the performer has to add information just to see the beat, then the engraver didn't really make it completely clear. If it's a casual rehearsal for a jazz quartet then it's not a big deal, but if you have an entire studio orchestra being paid union scale and they have to take 5 minutes to mark the beats in the parts, then that's a pretty expensive 5 minutes.

The way I see it, your 2nd example is about as clear as it's going to get. At some point, engravers and editors need to sign off on their work as being "state of the art" and leave it to the players to clarify the notation with penciled annotation, as the need arises for each individual. Some will have no trouble at all with your example. Others, like myself, may need the reassurance of their own personalized reminders.

By the way, I like erelievonen's suggestion about having the beat 4 "rest/note/rest" delineated by a beam. Sadly, this is not easily accomplished in Finale.

N.

[erelievonen]

By the way, I like erelievonen's suggestion about having the beat 4 "rest/note/rest" delineated by a beam. Sadly, this is not easily accomplished in Finale.

How do you mean this is not easily accomplished in Finale? There are options for beaming over rests and for drawing stemlets automatically.
The only problem with those options, however, is that they are global over the whole document.

[Knut]

By the way, I like erelievonen's suggestion about having the beat 4 "rest/note/rest" delineated by a beam. Sadly, this is not easily accomplished in Finale.

How do you mean this is not easily accomplished in Finale? There are options for beaming over rests and for drawing stemlets automatically.
The only problem with those options, however, is that they are global over the whole document.

My example of Erelievonen's suggestion was done in Finale. I wouldn't use stemlets on the 4th beat (rest, note, rest) only, though.

[Fred G. Unn]

There are options for beaming over rests and for drawing stemlets automatically.
The only problem with those options, however, is that they are global over the whole document.

Agreed. Perhaps off topic for this forum, but the ability to apply something like this as a staff style would be a nice feature to have.