Notational curiosity?

[John Ruggero]

The following is from the autograph of Schubert's "Arpeggione" Sonata. His fermatas tend to be large and florid, but in this case it is unclear as to what note the fermata applies to. Could this be a "collective fermata" encompassing several notes? Or was he just in a hurry?

The final three notes are part of a triplet, (the triplet symbol is angled and touches the fermata dot), which to me makes it less likely that the fermata is intended for the D natural, although it is certainly possible. The final B natural is more likely, but the center of the fermata is so far from the B. So I lean toward the "collective" hypothesis. I believe I have seen such an animal elsewhere…

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[OCTO]

Hm... I would say the same. As composer myself, I tend to write something I shouldn't, but later on when proofreading I see something like that.
I believe he wanted piano to wait somehow (endlessly) for cello to make ritardando...
One thing I "feel" that happens is the following: the cello plays triplet towards ending, de facto Schubert makes technical accelerando, and than asks for even more ritardando inside of ritardando so that he can fill out the phrase with the triplet and at the same time to make it wide (= drop the tempo double exponentially).
And therefore: piano, please WAIT.

But I am not sure how it should be notated in a (Urtext) edition. Maybe putting the fermata in to parenthesis.

[erelievonen]

Bärenreiter Urtext draws a wide fermata over the entire triplet, which to me seems the most correct interpretation.
"Collective fermatas" like this do occur once in a while in 18th and 19th century music, they are not quite as rare as one might think, and when written clearly, their meaning is immediately obvious to the reader.

[harpsi]

Could you expand on their obvious meaning? As a performer I would certainly solve the situation, but I would not be 100% sure on how to interpret this notation.

[John Ruggero]

So we seem to have a consensus. And the Baerenreiter complete edition agrees. Great! I am doing yet another clarinet and piano arrangement and that is what I will do here.

I would also interpret it as prolonging the last four notes of the ritardando in almost agonizing suspense.

It is interesting that the old Schubert edition omits this fermata completely, and the ones in the following movement, one of which I supply here for comparison. Note the careful placement of the fermata in this case.

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[Vaughan]

I just arranged Mozart's Cosí fan tutte and it abounds with these collective fermatas, sometimes over an entire measure, sometimes over several notes. They invariably appear at moments when one or more lines are expected to move freely or perhaps even improvise a cadenza, so I think it's pretty clear that it just means colla parte.

[John Ruggero]

As you said, Vaughan, Cosi is practically crawling with them and it is definitely a colla part indication or even calling for a cadenza using the given notes as a framework. That leads to speculation about the fermatas in the Schubert. Improvisation in the Arpeggione Sonata? It would make sense given the soloistic nature of the piece. Or would it destroy the beautiful simplicity of these transitions?

In any case, Finale (and I suspect Sibelius) needs a new smart shape for "collective fermatas."

[Vaughan]

Absolutely! I had to create my own as a graphic expression. I didn't bother with playback, although you could conceivably set it to stretch the tempo.

[harpsi]

Thank you both, very interesting.

I had a look in Clive Brown's book on classical and romantic performance practice. Apparently the fermata was used in a number of ways, but directly related to this thread would be two quotes from Salieri and Vogler, where three notes in the violin part are under one single fermata together with the text "con le parole" (Salieri) and "colla parte" (Vogler). The same fermata is in the vocal part but without the text.

This supports what you have written above in the thread, that the phrase should be performed without constraints of tempo and/or with some embellishments.

Brown does not quote from Mozart, but refers to Neumann: Ornamention and Improvisation, for an extensive discussion.

I guess such a fermata also could be achieved with a tweaked slur and a staccato dot.

[Vaughan]

I guess such a fermata also could be achieved with a tweaked slur and a staccato dot.

That's exactly the way I did it. A built-in 'colla parte fermata' would be nicer, especially if it would stretch properly according to its length.