An accent question, re: string writing

[MichelRE]

Would a string player see a difference between the two types of accent in the enclosed image?

While looking this up, I've come across some saying that the first accent is a softer accent, while others say it's a louder accent.... is there no consensus as to the effect?

Is this 1st accent unique to string writing? I've never come across this in any piano writing (that I can recall).

As always, ever grateful for the help on this forum.

[RMK]

The first would be more intense, it seems to me. Since the marcato symbol implies a short note, I wouldn't think you need the dot.

This articulation is often seen in jazz notation.

[David Ward]

As a trombone player I was used to seeing both these accents and was always expected to play the first more strongly and heavily than the second. I was also familiar with each of them both with and without the staccato. Nor in the repertoire I was used to playing does the first necessarily represent a short note; indeed it can sometimes be found in combination with a tenuto mark. It is not uncommon on its own in Wagner, where without a staccato it is not usually played short, but is always heavy. As far as I have heard when playing such repertoire, the strings respond to it in a similar way.

Simply: the first (when complete with staccato) heavy and short, the second a more modest short accent whose strength is relative to the dynamic in which it occurs.

Interesting that you point out that that the first is rare in piano music. As a non-pianist I have written it on occasion for the piano without being aware of this (John Ruggero, was I wrong to do so?). Maybe I've just been lucky, but it has been interpreted as I intended and not questioned (but then my pianists have tended to have experience as repetiteurs).

[John Ruggero]

David, the marking is certainly also used in piano music as a strong, heavy accent of a staccato note, just like it looks. As far as I can recall, it's not common before the 20th century, but I just found a few examples in Schoenberg's piano music.

[MichelRE]

I just found a few examples in Schoenberg's piano music.

well THAT would explain why I haven't come across it in piano scores yet!

[OCTO]

The first is less often seen in the string literature (I don't have statistics, but just from my experience) and I would say that the first is even stronger than the first.

[John Ruggero]

There are plenty of marcato accents in Bartok's quartets, as one would expect, but I couldn't find any that are combined with a staccato dot. There was a least one combined with a tenuto indication, however.

[OCTO]

There are plenty of marcato accents in Bartok's quartets, as one would expect, but I couldn't find any that are combined with a staccato dot. There was a least one combined with a tenuto indication, however.

That's right, Bartok wanted strings to sound as percussions. I haven't performed any of these ("only" Second Sonata, Second Concerto and Solo Sonata), but I see now in Quartet 5, there are plenty of them, but as you say, I rarely see with a staccato dot. Usually they are alone or with tenutos.