più and meno as dynamic modifers

[benwiggy]

I presume, following Italian, that 'più piano' is quieter than piano, and thus 'meno piano' is louder; and the same is true for 'molto piano'.

I'm looking for a 'warmer mezzopiano than we've just had' instruction. So più mp wouldn't be right, and meno mp seems counter-intuitive and open to rehearsal questions.

It's a lullaby, so I don't want to go mad. Any thoughts?

[RMK]

Doesn't più p mean "softer than the prevailing dynamic", whatever it is?

[MalteM]

[…] meno mp seems counter-intuitive and open to rehearsal questions.

So you probably don’t want to say “less quiet” but “louder”. The simplest solution IMO would be “mf”, but if you want to stay relative, you had to say “più ”

It's a lullaby, so I don't want to go mad. Any thoughts?

How about “poco più ” or even “pochissimo più ”?

Edit: Maybe it’s not a question of dynamic only, as you said “warmer mp”.

[benwiggy]

Interesting. I don't think I've ever seen something like 'più f' following piano, but only following something like forte, so slightly overlooked the completely relative aspect.

It's probably safer to use absolute terms. Thanks.

[Anders Hedelin]

Maybe it’s not a question of dynamic only, as you said “warmer mp”.

What about espr. or poco espr.? espr. adds something to the character like 'warmth' or 'intensity', and as a rule also to the dynamic level. Fx p espr. practically always is louder than just p, sometimes rather much in fact.

[Callasmaniac]

Or "mp con calore" ?

[John Ruggero]

What about espr. or poco espr.?

+1

[OCTO]

sotto voce --?

[MichelRE]

sotto voce --?

I would take "sotto voce" to be "softer than" the general dynamic.

[benwiggy]

Thanks all. "A lot to think about." I'll probably just say mp for everyone, and trust in a choir's natural tendency to get louder.