A note in Rachmaninoff
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A note in Rachmaninoff
This may seem a peculiar post, but I am wondering what Notatio readers hear at :59-1:02 in the following recording by Rachmaninonff of his Prelude op. 32 no 12:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNDz3-Uaf6o
Here is the note I am interested in. It's measure 16. Do you hear a F double sharp or an F sharp at the arrow? (1:01) That is, an augmented chord or a major chord?
I am writing a response to a Henle blog post and want to be sure I am not mishearing this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNDz3-Uaf6o
Here is the note I am interested in. It's measure 16. Do you hear a F double sharp or an F sharp at the arrow? (1:01) That is, an augmented chord or a major chord?
I am writing a response to a Henle blog post and want to be sure I am not mishearing this.
M1 Mac mini (OS 12.4), Dorico 5, Finale 25.5, GPO 4, Affinity Publisher 2, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard maestro
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Re: A note in Rachmaninoff
Good grief I can’t believe that I can’t tell either way! 
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Re: A note in Rachmaninoff
Thanks for trying, Cor anglais. It's a very old recording.
Anybody else want to give it a go?
Anybody else want to give it a go?
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- David Ward
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Re: A note in Rachmaninoff
Inconclusive I fear, but possibly a major chord (with an F
).
It's not helped by the fact that that chord seems to distort here as does the chord in a similar place in the next bar (limitations of my rural Scottish broadband?).
(OT on the subject of my slowish broadband, I was recently in London for a few weeks and downloaded one of a series of David Attenborough wildlife TV programmes to my MacBook. Here the download takes an hour: in London it took forty seconds.)

It's not helped by the fact that that chord seems to distort here as does the chord in a similar place in the next bar (limitations of my rural Scottish broadband?).
(OT on the subject of my slowish broadband, I was recently in London for a few weeks and downloaded one of a series of David Attenborough wildlife TV programmes to my MacBook. Here the download takes an hour: in London it took forty seconds.)
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Re: A note in Rachmaninoff
Thanks, David. The distortion is probably more the recording. We have very fast internet here and it's still hard to hear.
Anyone else?
Anyone else?
Last edited by John Ruggero on 07 Apr 2023, 20:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A note in Rachmaninoff
sounds like an F# to me.
structurally, it looks logical to have an F# there as well considering the subsequent measure.
structurally, it looks logical to have an F# there as well considering the subsequent measure.
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Re: A note in Rachmaninoff
Thanks so much, MichelRE. I sent you a private message.
Would anyone else care to voice an opinion?
Would anyone else care to voice an opinion?
Last edited by John Ruggero on 07 Apr 2023, 21:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A note in Rachmaninoff
Just a thought: R. seems to place contrasting chords on the last (dotted quarter) beat of the measure. I can't say I hear what he plays actually, but it seems logical that the chord in question should be quite clearly contrasting. The harmony D#-6 (+5 if you like) with a flatted 3 on top is rather muddy, and possibly out of style. So, I'll go for good old B major.
It's a funny thing with harmonic surprises: the more complex harmonies aren't always the more surprising ones, often enough simple triads are more stunning when being 'out of place'. (A technique used, and possibly overused, by Richard Strauss.)
Edit: Having listened a few more times I' not so sure. My idea of a surprisingly different harmony on the upbeat is contradicted by R's perfomance: he's driving forward towards the next measure, without the slightest hint of exposing something extraordinary on the upbeat. So, the muddled analysis D#-6 add -3, may not be as muddled in practice and context after all. Then again, like you, I'm not sure. I was just trying to find a rational explanation - sometimes that solves things, sometimes not.
It's a funny thing with harmonic surprises: the more complex harmonies aren't always the more surprising ones, often enough simple triads are more stunning when being 'out of place'. (A technique used, and possibly overused, by Richard Strauss.)
Edit: Having listened a few more times I' not so sure. My idea of a surprisingly different harmony on the upbeat is contradicted by R's perfomance: he's driving forward towards the next measure, without the slightest hint of exposing something extraordinary on the upbeat. So, the muddled analysis D#-6 add -3, may not be as muddled in practice and context after all. Then again, like you, I'm not sure. I was just trying to find a rational explanation - sometimes that solves things, sometimes not.
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Re: A note in Rachmaninoff
Thanks so much, Anders. I sent you a private message.
I remember a phrase in contemporary music during the 80's I think it was when an amazingly dissonant piece would suddenly end with some soothing major and minor triads. The relief was palpable in the audience who were convinced that they had just heard something quite profound and wonderful.
Any more takers?
I remember a phrase in contemporary music during the 80's I think it was when an amazingly dissonant piece would suddenly end with some soothing major and minor triads. The relief was palpable in the audience who were convinced that they had just heard something quite profound and wonderful.
Any more takers?
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Re: A note in Rachmaninoff
John Ruggero wrote: ↑07 Apr 2023, 21:35 I remember a phrase in contemporary music during the 80's I think it was when an amazingly dissonant piece would suddenly end with some soothing major and minor triads. The relief was palpable in the audience who were convinced that they had just heard something quite profound and wonderful.
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